Summary: Gender roles are changing at a rate not seen since the invention of agriculture. Marriage, the institution most affected, must also change or wither away. Here are reports with facts about marriage today and speculation about their meaning. All we know is that the future of marriage will be different than what we think of as “traditional” marriage. {This post was revised slightly in Nov 2015.}
Contents
- Marriage: an institution in flux.
- The facts about marriage.
- One theory about the cause: men are “going Galt”.
- Will it be the end of civilization?
- Clear thinking about the problem.
- The 1st shot in next phase of the gender revolution.
- Conclusions.
- For More Information.
(1) Marriage: an institution in flux
Marriage has been an institution in flux for centuries, but the rate of change accelerated after California Governor Ronald Reagan signed the revolutionary Family Law Act of 1969, retroactively abolishing the “traditional” binding contract of marriage and replacing it with no-fault divorce. This created our present system of serial monogamy (a series of monogamous pairings with the pretense of being for life). The feminist revolutions which followed forced further changes in marriage. Since then we’ve slid along the slippery slope, and still cannot see what lies at the end.
Let’s start this examination at an interview with Janice Shaw Crouse. She gives a status report on marriage today: “Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married“…
“Far too many young men have failed to make a normal progression into adult roles of responsibility and self-sufficiency, roles generally associated with marriage and fatherhood” … The high percentage of bachelors means bleak prospects for millions of young women who dream about a wedding day that may never come. “It’s very, very depressing … They’re not understanding how important it is for the culture, for society, for the strength of the nation to have strong families.”
Crouse sees the present but only in terms of yesterday’s norms. Today many young men reject the “normal progression into adult roles”. Many young women no longer “dream about a wedding day”, or are unwilling to make the compromises with a man to make that happen. As for the effect on society, it is just another of great experiments that we’re conducting — with our society as the lab rat.
Janice Shaw Crouse is a senior fellow at the Beverly LaHaye Institute at Concerned Women for America. She is the author of Marriage Matters: Perspectives on the Private and Public Importance of Marriage
(2) The facts about marriage
For more about the facts Crouse describes, see the Pew Research report “Record Share of Americans Have Never Married As Values, Economics and Gender Patterns Change” (September 2014). It’s weak about the causes. For example, they don’t mention that increasing rates of obesity take many young people off the “market” for marriage, that the increased availability of sex outside marriage reduces men’s incentives to marry, or the increased “competition” of games and porn as alternatives to women.
Pew’s research shows that men’s weakening economic status vs. women renders many of them unmarriageable. The widening education gap guarantees that the economic gap will continue to widen. We already can see the effects rippling across society as women are moving on top of men in America.
But although the role of each of these factors remains obscure, the results are obvious and even predictable.
(a) More young people remain unmarried
(b) More young people will never marry: a 5x increase between 1960 and 2030
(3) One theory about the cause: men are “going Galt”
In Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged
Hundreds of websites for men espouse these new values. It’s described by psychologist Helen Smith in Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream – and Why It Matters
American society has become anti-male. Men are sensing the backlash and are consciously and unconsciously going “on strike.” They are dropping out of college, leaving the workforce and avoiding marriage and fatherhood at alarming rates. The trend is so pronounced that a number of books have been written about this “man-child” phenomenon, concluding that men have taken a vacation from responsibility simply because they can. But why should men participate in a system that seems to be increasingly stacked against them?
As Men on Strike demonstrates, men aren’t dropping out because they are stuck in arrested development. They are instead acting rationally in response to the lack of incentives society offers them to be responsible fathers, husbands and providers. In addition, men are going on strike, either consciously or unconsciously, because they do not want to be injured by the myriad of laws, attitudes and hostility against them for the crime of happening to be male in the twenty-first century. Men are starting to fight back against the backlash. Men on Strike explains their battle cry.
For a more explicit version of this thinking see “Why men won’t marry you” by Suzanne Venker at Fox News and “Why You’re Not Married” by Tracy McMillan at the Huffington Post.
(4) Will it be the end of civilization?
Left and Right offer us competing visions of a post-marriage (traditional) society. The Left hopes for a more egalitarian society, with government assistance substituting for the family (as is happening in Scandinavia).
The Right fears that continued decay in the current family structure means the decay of civilization — as George Gilder explains in Sexual Suicide
Drug Addiction, lack of education, welfare, children in poverty, violence, unemployment, single-parent homes-these critical problems facing our country today. Many ideas have been presented regarding the cause of these problems, but only George Gilder speaks directly and with authority about their one undeniable source: the disintegration of the American family.
Men and Marriage examines the loss of the family and the well-defined sex roles it used to offer and how this loss has changed the focus of our society. Poverty, for instance, comes from the destruction of the family when single parents are abandoned by their lovers or older women are suddenly divorced because society approves of the husband’s new, younger girlfriend.
Gilder claims that men will only own up to their paternal obligations when the women lead them to do so and that this civilizing influence, balanced with, proper economic support, is the most important part of maintaining a productive, healthy, loving society.
(5) One woman’s clear thinking about the problem
Unlike the above analysts, who see the decline of marriage as resulting from men’s weakening interest and ability to marry, here’s a woman warning that women are a cause of falling marriage rates.
When people complain of men not marrying (even they who are able), they forget how little women offer in exchange for all they get by marriage. Girls are seldom taught to be of any use whatever to a man, so that I am astonished only at the numbers of men who do marry! Many girls do not even try to be agreeable to look at, much less to live with. They forget how numerous they are, and the small absolute need men have of wives; but, nevertheless, men do still marry, and would oftener marry could they find mates — women who are either helpful to them, or amusing, or pleasing to their eye.
This is from The Art of Beauty
To see women building a post-marriage society, look to the Nordic nations with their high numbers of single mothers. For example, Denmark — with its strong government financial support for single mothers, where donated sperm to single mothers is a rapidly-growing trend because women don’t need men — or perhaps men don’t want to become fathers (expressed in that article with a feminist spin: many men are “not ready for parenthood”, at least on the terms women offer).
(6) He fired the first shot in this next phase of the gender revolution
To understand what’s happening I recommend the book that started the backlash to the feminist victory: The Myth of Male Power
The Myth of Male Power explains how almost all societies (American society in particular) are both matriarchal and patriarchal, how men’s and women’s roles provide unique benefits and limitations on each gender. Both men and women may be seen to be privileged and disadvantaged, each in different ways. The focus of the book, as the title suggests, is on the male role. This is done not to slight women’s issues, but rather to supplement the ever-growing body of literature and research on gender issues which tends to frame the problems from an essentially female perspective.
(7) Conclusions
Today every society grapples with these questions. Saudi Arabia, Japan, Denmark, America — there are scores of paths to new structures for the family. I recommend learning from the successes and failures of others, remaining open to new ideas, and only slowly making changes to the legal structure of our core institutions. But I predict that America will do none of these things, and instead drift thoughtlessly into the future.
It is too soon for predictions, other than that interesting times lie ahead.
(8) For More Information
If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. See all posts about women and gender issues, especially these about marriage…
- Do we want to bring back traditional marriage? What is traditional marriage?
- The feminist revolutionaries have won. Insurgents have arisen to challenge the new order. As always, they’re outlaws.
- The war of the sexes heats up: society changes as men learn the Dark Triad.
- The revolution in gender roles reshapes society in ways too disturbing to see.
- A look ahead at the New America, after the gender wars.
- Books to help us see the strange new world following the revolution in gender roles.
- Love in the new world, after the gender wars.
Straight off the MRA (Male Rights Activists) trope…nonsense of course.
There are huge class differences in this. High class people are marrying at high rates and have low divorce rates, albeit at later ages than in the past. High, ‘alpha’ sucessful males marry high ‘alpha’ sucessful females. Not doormats…..
Lower class people have lower marriage rates and higher divorce rates, overall.
Therefore, there are big economic forces in this.
Now, men doing a Galt, is laughable. It is women that are no longer prepared to sacrifice ther lives for a ‘boy’. A man that has not grown up. That treats them terribly that is not capable of a good working relationship. Why should they?
Being more independent and self sufficient than males, most women would rather be on their own than put up with that nonsense. And they do increasingly.
As all men do, they blame women for this..instead of having a cold hard look at their behaviour and society. Questoning it and their programming that they have been given…. and becoming a man… Like sorry your sexual urges are actually controllable, like (my Grandfather) sew, cook and fought at the battle of the Somme …and bring up 3 children on his own……and filled the house with books and learning and taught me chess and was great engineer…..
There was, lost the link, an article in the Melbourne Age newpaper just recently about a guy going around schools trying to teach boys to be men. Unreal. Part of this is self discovery, asking young boys (14 years old) to go through their facebook pages and describe them….they classsified people into ‘sluts’ and ‘fags’…. that was their world. The only way they could express themselves was through violence and prejudice.
What is wrong with them and they way they have been brought up?
So the problem is not females they are just walking away from this, even though they want, desperately, a good partnership with a man. The problem is boys not growing up…… filled with prejudice and anger and hatred. That treat women like a piece of meat and a domestic slave…..
Despite all the MRA propaganda, those males who treat female like equals, that work together in a partnership…well they have no problems finding and keeping relationships…Probably great sex lives too….lol.
Being fairly right wing here, older and mostly ex military…the standard narrow gender roles are attactive to people like you. Did it work for you? Did you ever queston it? What about your wives? Did you ever appreciate that they threw their lives away and all their hopes and dreams and talents…just to make you feel better…and the bitterness so many of them feel now because of it. They gave everything and in many cases got nothing back
Still catching up wth your buddies for beers? .Flirting (trying to, they despise you) with young women, telling your sexist ‘jokes’, whinging about your wives? Quick trip to a brothel now and then? Maybe secret, no one knows this, ‘kinky sex’…..?
Oh, you are statistically are more likely to use domestic violence. 1 in 4 overall in the US, 1 in 2 for police officers…male military?
Hey I am trangender I lived amongst you ‘men’ for decades I know all your secrets. I know how you think and act……. I know what what you tell other ‘men’ when you get drunk.
“Being more independent and self sufficient than males, most women would rather be on their own than put up with that nonsense. And they do increasingly.”
Women are so independent ….. yeah right. Except only men pay taxes. Atleast according to a new zealand research paper. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2375926. By the end of her life, the average woman will have a negative fiscal impact of $150,000.
Radomir,
I believe Lisa speaks of “independence” of individuals. You are speaking of women as a group to society. Shifting from one frame to another changes everything (this is a basic rule in economics, why what’s true for a household is not necessarily so for a nation).
The conclusions of this study results from the economics of our system, where women are neither paid or taxed for household work — which includes child-rearing. Since these functions must be done for society to survive, your conclusion seems odd that failure to include them in our monetary transactions means that women are not “independent”.
Any rational accounting would say that men — indeed, all society, every society — is dependent on women doing these function. You appear to have it backwards when looking at women vs. society.
Pure male shaming rubbish. Modern marriage does not come close to passing a cost-benefit analysis. I own a business, two separate four bedroom houses outright in Orange County, California, and make mid-six figures. Why would I risk half of that and half my future earning on the off chance that some modern woman might possibly choose to remain faithful?
Jack,
“Modern marriage does not come close to passing a cost-benefit analysis.”
First, this post looks at what’s happening. It is not a detailed examination of why — always a more complex subject. These are 1,000 word chapters looking at large social phenomena.
Second, this post point to that conclusions.
Third, I have written several posts drawing the same conclusion as you do. See the latest: For Father’s Day: revolutionary words that will forever change the American family.
{Duplicate comment removed.}
Editor of the Fabius Maximus website
I would argue that house wives are INDEED compensation for doing housework and raising children. Women make up at least 80% of all consumption. Women control MOST of the income in the house. This is include hers and his. Men see VERY little personal benefit from their OWN income. Most of it goes to pay for how SHE wants, to pay for furnishings that SHE wants, food, clothes, toys, eating out….the vast majority of a man’s income is NOT enjoyed by the man. If their is a pay gap the there is certain an income BENEFITS gap and men are getting shafted while women extract all the cash and prizes. The WHOLE house belongs to the female. The husband is lucky if he has a workbench in the garage. Women are MORE than compensated for the work they do in the home. The very notion women are not compensation is a cultural MYTH created by feminists. Just look at it this way…If men just stopped providing women resources at the rate we provide them, we could save hundreds and hundreds of billions. That translates in massive reductions in POLLUTION. Women are the single largest polluters on planet earth. Just think about the paper products, and cosmetic cases and bottles, clothes they buy but don’t wear, gas driving the malls and all over etc etc etc.
Men not marrying is good for men, good for the environment and will be the ONLY way to usher in true equality. It is time that women work and pay their own way through life.
Lisa:
You are either a troll or uniformed.
The “High successful Alphas” do NOT want “opinionated female partners”. They do NOT want women who are “sassy and challenge them”. That is leftist fantasy, pure nonsense propaganda!! The high success Alphas want young hot models (18-23 year olds), who are ultra sexy and feminine to the core.
The ultimate Alpha Male, Donald J. Trump, married a woman over 25 years younger, who is insanely hot, submissive, and who wants to be a mother. Melania Trump is feminine, stunningly beautiful, classy, a good mom, and just overall amazing female species, period. Melania is NOT the “Sex and the City” lunacy idea you are describing. *roll eyes*
Sex and the City is a fantasy for Feminists, designed to deceive dumb young women to delay marriage until after 35, when they will be of lower desire to most men, SPECIALLY rich men. Ha ha…. it is truly insane to think women get better with age! No human being physically improves with age after age 30, and women, after a decade on the carrousel with Tom, Dick, and Harry will look 10+ years older. Just look at Lindsay Lohan and see what age, alcohol, anti-depressants, and c*ck carrousel ride does to a woman. *roll eyes*
Women can do whatever they want and so can the men. The “thank you” American (and Western women, generally) have given the MEN who built this civilization and created lives of comfort and luxury for the women is to be mocked, jeered, and cheated on. If these same “beta males” you are mocking decide to say “f*ck it, I am not gonna work 60 hours a week in my engineer job and gonna chill at home without a woman, what is that to you?”
Why should the Betas marry women who will almost undoubtly cheat on them, due to being unhappy with their “boring nice guy behavior”? Any woman, after riding a carousel of c*cks from Alphas, will NOT be satisfied with a Beta man of any kind. Their only use is cash. But the Betas are catching on and are “going GALT” (the correct terms is “going MGTOW”). They are working, but are NOT getting married. There are so many whores out there putting it out free, at record speed, that even Betas can get an occasional “freebie”. Worst case scenario, yeah, they can P4P (Pay For Play), which is infinitely cheaper then a wife or a divorce. :)
You will also learn that when “men go Galt”, that means these same young males will become marginalized and angry, just as you describe. The difference is that young men are not angry for its own sake. They are angry because they are put through a system of abuse from Day 1 and they get to a point they finally rebel and turn to anger.
50 years of Feminist domination, has created an environment where young boys are mistreated, shunned, tormented, and even abused starting with kindergarten and 1st grade in public schools. Boys who do not conform to FemiNazi teachers “barking orders at them” are labeled “troubled children” and are administered ADD/ADHD medications or depressant drugs to “calm them down” and to conform. Parents who oppose will be visited by the Gestapo-like “Children Services” along with armed police. You refuse the abuse by teacher to your kids, your kid will be taken away by the Gestapo.
Then young men move into a teenage world where any good in them has to be snuffed out or he will be bullied, mocked, and ostracized by women their age (and their male peers). Women are generally attracted to thugs. Look at last 50 years, the women attraction has gotten more intense for @ssholes, bad boys, and now criminal thugs. The women went from Greasers to Bad Boy rockers to now criminal gangsta-style thugs.
Therefore, the young men will respond to the culture around him. He will respond by becoming a thug to get with women.
By college, if the man gets into a typical leftist-controlled college, he has already experienced his share of discrimination, and abuse. Since admissions are skewed against him based on his gender (and assuming he is white, then REALLY skewed against him), he is now facing a barrage of attacks on him personally. “No whites here”. “No conservatives, no Republicans!” The indoctrination and attacks from Feminist system never end.
But even before college, after so much abuse going through a school system that hates and mistreats them, churches that no longer provide positive masculine influences, and lack of fathers at home, many boys simply burst into rage in their teenage years.
There is a danger here, of course. Large groups of marginalized, impoverished, womanless, childless, and dependent men are EASILY brought into extremist groups. If the 14-year old males in a Beta country like Australia are beginning to react with hate and anger (as you claim), imagine what a violent culture like the USA will produce? Groups like NeoNazis and even armed bands will form and fill ranks with record speed. Hitler and the Nazis of 1930s used marginalized impoverished men to form a “domestic army”. Mussolini used unpaid and angry male WWI veterans to take power in the 1920s. This is a danger the left is not foreseeing…. yet.
By the way, given a 70% unmarried rate for women between ages 18-34 (https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/bachelor-nation-70-men-aged-20-34-are-not-married), who is going to protect the women from these hordes of angry, disenfranchised, and violent young men? *roll eyes* What..??? Women gonna buy guns now…. oh wait, they oppose gun ownership and 2nd Amendment!! *roll eyes*
You said something truly unfounded by facts, that I feel compelled to respond to: “So the problem is not females they are just walking away from this, even though they want, desperately, a good partnership with a man”. –> Maximus correctly points out that men AND woman are going their own way. There is ZERO evidence that women “Want a good partnership with a man”. Maybe they do after their “Epiphany Phase” between ages 29-31, but when men get by until age 30 without being married, they will STAY that way.
And why should they marry some slut who panics and begins seeking out a Beta after age 30? Marrying a slut/carrousel rider who “reforms” after 30 is akin to buying a used car with high miles and almost no options. She will have nothing but baggage, and anger towards men, after hundreds of pumps n dumps during her Carrousel phase (ages 16-29). Only a fool of a man would take that deal.
Any woman expecting a “good man” to wait around for her to finish her c*ck carrousel ride of 50 to 300+ different men and marry her after 30 has lost all sense of sanity. That is not realistic. That is not going to happen. That is why Stats already show unmarried rate of over 70% for men 18-34. This will only increase with more understanding of The Red Pill, MGTOW, and MRAs.
By the way, I was married 12 years before my wife was killed by a “Dreamer” from Guatemala driving drunk (during the day!!). I was always the dominant male in our relationship, and she loved it. Midwestern woman, we got married when I was 23. It was different world then, when marriages still worked with Christian, clean, “middle American” women. The sex was incredible because I demanded she stay fit, cook, and yes, she worked FT too, but only while I was going to finish my 3rd college degree. Then she was stay at home and we were about to start a family, when tragedy struck. But truth be told, sex was only great because I was dominant and she loved it. Not “50 Shades” crap. True Alpha dominance. She felt so good pleasing me. I would not say she was a “Taken In Hand” woman, but close. She wanted me to be the leader of our home, and I was and she loved every moment of it.
But a woman like her are so rare now, so I plan to stay single now and have LTRs, no live-in women. Divorce risk, and cost-benefit of a marriage is not worth it anymore. I am now that I am mid-30s and much much better off financially then I was when we married, 2 cars, house paid for, living in affluent suburb in the Rockies region.
Because I want children, I am working on a plan to have 2 children with a “decent woman” and have legally-enforced child plans and shared custody guarantees by woman. Yes, kids will have 2 homes, but they will be near each other and I will pay moderate child support (which sucks), but the cost and risk is much less then a marriage and kids raised together. This system sucks, but
Older? I am 35. I a NOT cops or ex-military. I worked in legal field and I deal with Marxist $hitbag lawyers all the time. Probably 85% of lawyers are Marxist radicals, I kid you not.
As for flirting with younger women, I look 30 or so, I am a solid 8, thick full brown hair and blue eyes, JACKED body…. My Mom is northern Italian, so girls go for it. Trust me, I bang more 20 year olds now then I did when I was 21. Money and a cool convertible helps tremendously these days. I actually take Millennial (non-Hipster, no tattoos,) girls on “Dates” and they love even small stuff like going for dessert only. The Millennial dudes have ZERO GAME, and I got a ton of game.
For uglier guys, PLEASE, take a trip to Thailand or even Japan and see what a little game, basic physical shape, and some cash will get you.
Transgender and you hang out with men now??? You are a dude that is now a woman? Your experience is hardly the experience of 99% of hetero males out there. No offense. :)
ChristianCool
Chris,
Your comment is 1700 words long. That’s longer than most posts on the internet. It’s length makes it a thread-killer, no matter how insightful.
A comment of a few hundred words is more likely to be read.
“Lisa”, if you didn’t get your chromosomes to change, you’re still the sex you were born. (Gender is an aspect of language, not people, FYI.)
Now, you’re overtly mentally ill, sickened by elective, medically unnecessary/unhealthy drug use (opposite sex hormone adulteration of your body), likely surgical mutilation, etc., but are still a male. Not a male with much in the way of prospects to be with anyone normal (e.g., desirable to be with), though.
I realize I am late to reply to your feminist point of view and you wrote it back in 2015. However either way, here’s a little insight into the future as men are now walking away in droves. Allow me to point MGTOW out to you with it as its name as Isaiah in the Bible.
Isaiah 4:1 Seven women will grab hold of one man at that time. They will say, “We will provide our own food, we will provide our own clothes; but let us belong to you– take away our shame!”
Isaiah 13:12 An Oracle Concerning Babylon
… I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity. I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant and humiliate the pride of tyrants. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the wrath of the LORD of Hosts on the day of His burning anger.…
I have held off on commenting on this theme for lots of reasons but now I am going to break my silence in a small way and see if I can contribute to the dialog.
I interact with an increasing number of people in their twenties, mostly men, these days and have observed the following things:
1. Young people are frequently not ready for parenthood at ages 20-25. I am not sure if this is because we have raised the requirements for being parents over the last 50 years or if they are slower to emotionally mature than 50 years ago.
Either way, I am very content with fewer immature people having children. Raising a child has never been a good choice for the faint of heart or for the thoughtless. Yes, there were a large number of success stories where people turned their lives around when they suddenly became parents and there are a much larger number of stories where the new parents screwed up themselves and their children even worse than if they had never had kids.
2. It is not like the young men are ALL hiding in their parents basements playing online games and watching porn in a self-imposed solitary confinement. They are interacting with and exploring the world in their chosen way and seem to be getting greater satisfaction from it than if they had conformed to the mores of the 1950’s society and gotten married and had children quickly. The first few years of raising a child is very isolating because the little nipper needs so much of your time. Taking care of a baby and multiple younger children at the same time is even more isolating.
3. Women are now much better able to bear children in their 30’s and 40’s than they were 50 years ago. It isn’t physically ideal to wait to have your first child until after you are 35 but the compensation to the baby in having parents with vastly more monetary resources and greater maturity goes a long way, possibly giving the children better resources to deal with the world than if their parents had had the children in their 20’s.
4. With the population closing in on 8 billion people, does this world REALLY need more children? Especially from people who are not necessarily well-equipped to deal with the great emotional challenges of raising a child? I think that people having babies when they are not well equipped to do so is a major cause of many of the other problems your website investigates.
5. Young women, who mature more quickly, really should investigate the joys of raising a career before they investigate the joys of raising children. Those that choose to have the career over children are probably are not temperamentally well-equipped to raise children. In spite of all the complaints about people’s careers, it is vastly easier to deal with your career than it is to deal with your own children.
6. I understand your intent with the quote from 1883 but when I compare the current situation with the situation at that time, I cannot find any relevance. The society ideal of the time was that women were supposed to be totally financially dependent on their spouse and do nothing but make the spouse happy and raise the children.
This made a kind of sense when the average wife had 5-6 children and keeping the house attractive and hygienic enough to live in, and prepare healthy meals was a full-time job that was extremely challenging both mentally and physically. It makes no sense when an increasing number of married people choose not to have children, keeping the home tidy and hygienic does not consume a lot of time or require special knowledge, and the amount of money spent in restaurants is greater than the amount of money spent in grocery stores.
7. I suspect a large part of the changes you have identified are partly due to society dealing with a vastly increased lifespan. If I recall correctly, the average life expectancy of a white male in 1933 was 63 years old. Now it is 81 and increasing at a rate of 3-4 months every year.
Summary of my comments:
You have identified a very large and largely underreported phenomenon but I think it is mostly healthy and will lead the next generation to be smaller but vastly better equipped to rationally deal with problems.
Pluto,
I agree with most of what you say, and have written about most of these things. My point about these things is not (it’s almost never) to ask are these “good” or “bad” (I consider the poular fascination with this question somewhat odd). Rather it is to understand what’s happening and make projections as to the future.
I think we’ve just begun the former, and are nowhere near being able to do the latter. The best projection possible at this point is, imo, future society has high odds of looking different from anything previous seen.
“I understand your intent with the quote from 1883 but when I compare the current situation with the situation at that time, I cannot find any relevance.”
Then you don’t understand my point. The relevance is that concerns about marriage are a commonplace of history. I added some text to make that clearer.
Women mature earlier…lolololololololol….That’s a joke. Women go through puberty sooner. And that is where their growth in maturity STOPS. Women are nasty, petty, mean spirited hateful devils that extract resources from men like they are entitle do so….then they dispose of their provider objects with zero guilt or remorse….stop your simping. It’s bloody gross. You’re just an old plow horse tying to keep red pilled men on your gynocentric plantation. Sorry gramps..we aren’t buying it. Selling us by telling us how much better women are than us….just isn’t going to work. We are sick and tired of hearing how great those whores and traitors are. They are NOT our allies…they are our competition and the STATE is on their side. Wake up old timer.
I recall the Romans had to pass laws pressuring people to marry.
dashul,
That’s a powerful observation, rich with lessons for us! Roman patriarchs had strong control over their daughters, so marrying them off was no problem. But Roman widows had a high degree of social and economic independence, and were (as a group) reluctance to surrender those by re-marrying. Due to the high death rate, there were lots of widows. By the time of the early Republic Empire, Rome was having a problem with low fertility — which grew worse. Hence the laws encouraging or pressuring widows to remarry.
I should add, before this gets deleted….How many more times have I been more right than you bunch…..what us it now? Economic, military..etc, etc , etc…
And, grudgingly,bit by bit…yes, the ultimate anti CO2 induced global warming site…..is getting getting there…..as per my prediction…you can look it up…… Go back a few years.
Never mind you will delete this as you did my past posts…then in a few years you will agree….lol…..
Welll US military people…what can you say…….
Lets put my military historian hat on: How about you are are, useless at warfare, very good at violence, killimg innocents… and lying…..and bribing . You love killing innocent people, hate fighting..well … actual fighting. And you cannot trust the US, make an agreement as it is broken in a minute. This also is a part of the US DNA..,,,,lies and deception.
The ‘war nerd’ in me loves to think of the idea of Russia against the US/Nato forces,and watching the US/Nato attacking first being slaughtered…the sensible person in me knows that NATO will go nuclear first..and then the Northern world dies,,…
The funny thing is that the people who might save the US …are all those black, hispanic, etc, GBTI activists, trying to make things better.Not your your kind…..
The US Marines will go down fighting to the last man and woman and gay and lesbian and transgender person in front of the Goldman Sachs buildng…..
Lida,
“I should add, before this gets deleted”
I have never deleted any of your posts. They may have gotten swept up when running a spam sweep. To avoid being overrun I have it turned up to the max, so it eats a few valid comments — but it sweeps up hundreds every day, and that’s after deleting the most obvious ones. If you post a note about an eaten comment, I can usually retrieve it.
“How many more times have I been more right than you bunch…..what us it now? Economic, military.”
I have scanned your comments in the past. You are usually wrong. Unlike you, I track my forecasts — and have a strong record. But then I am more careful than you, and make far fewer.
Trump is President now. How right can your dumbass possibly be? The backlash against leftist feminist degeneracy has consolidated. Kick rocks.
VBI,
I don’t speak “rant”. Can you explain what you are attempting to say more clearly?
“Straight off the MRA (Male Rights Activists) trope…nonsense of course.”
I love how feminists denigrate men’s rights groups. They do whatever they can to silence anything to do with men standing up for themselves. I’m shocked that men’s rights speech hasn’t been censored yet by declaring it hate speech. It’s already censored on college campuses by feminists and the ‘progressive’ PC police.
I for one think it’s great that marriage is dying. Why? It’s long past time that women start carrying their own weight and add to the tax base. For far too long, men were expected to carry women due to their ‘delicate nature’. Well, now the mask is off and we can see women for what they really are – and it ain’t all sugar and spice and everything nice. No, no. Women only started to enter the workforce after jobs became far less dangerous, less life threatening, less laborious and more life enriching. That tells you everything you need to know about women.
With each woman that decides to remain single for life, that’s one more man that will not have to endure the life altering and often life destroying consequences of divorce on men. My favorite fairy tale:
Once upon a time, a prince proposed to a princess. The princess refused. The prince lived happily ever after. The end.
Where will it all end? It will end in socialism. Feminism is Marxism in panties – a socialist government being the end goal of progressives. If you don’t believe this, then you haven’t spent too much time on campus lately. Sweden is the future of the world. What does that mean? Low marriage rates, high out of wedlock birth rates, sky high taxes, quotas for women in all high paid positions and cultural misandry from birth to death. An oppressive socialist/feminist government bent on destroying the patriarchy (destroying men) and transferring men’s earned wealth and power, by force of misandric law, to women. All one need do to prove this to oneself is to ride the New York transit with his legs too far apart. If that doesn’t work for you – then just have sex with a college girl who’s had a few drinks and see where that gets you. Feminism isn’t about equality of opportunity but rather equality of outcome. What is equality of outcome? Marxism. It means you take things earned by one and forcefully redistribute it to another. Obama calls this “fundamental transformation” and ‘You didn’t build that.”
Read ‘The Manipulated Man’, ‘The Myth of Male Power’ and ‘Stand by Your Manhood’. Everything about women, especially those like Lisa, becomes crystal clear after that. That women are opting out of marriage is a God send for men. That women somehow believe this to be punishment for men is hilarious. Thank you, ‘ladies’. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Tim,
I agree. Got to love comments like “Straight off the MRA (Male Rights Activists) trope…nonsense of course.” God-like confidence about major social issues, a reliable indicator of shallow thinking — a prisoner of the “narrative. But a useful indicator, showing that there is little point to continue reading, or engage in discussion with the author.
Free women will destroy civilization. Except, the problem is not free women; it’s men who can’t deal with or adopt to free women. Traditional men whining about the evils of women being equal and free is like southern slave owners whining about blacks being free and equal. Their man-hysterics is a sign of genuine progress, an end to oppression. The society they want, built on people being in chains and controlled by others, should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.
finn,
You appear to be ignoring the data cited here and elsewhere about the rapidly deteriorating situation of men — most notably in education, which predicts future education.
Also, do you have any evidence for your theory? It sounds like one of Kipling’s “Just So Stories” — like “how the elephant got his trunk”. Of course, those were for children.
“The rapidly deterioriating situation for men” – which consists wholly of the fact that women do just fine in life and business – even better than men, sometimes – when no longer rammed into a limiting “obedient Susy homemaker” gender role BY men?
Men’s situation is not “deteriorating”. It is simply no longer artificially *inflated* by limiting women’s choices and liberties for men’s benefit. You are not being “torn down” – you are simply no longer allowed to reach higher by forcing women to act as your stools.
Looking at some of the comments posted here on this article just goes to show how difficult it is to think through and discuss these important issues without being shot down as some kind of retrograde sexist who wants to reduce women to a state of barefoot pregnancy, such as feminists believe all women were in before the advent of feminism.
On one of the posts from yesterday I mentioned why I thought so little of government workers, particularly those that I have had the misfortune of knowing back when I was in the DC area. Well, one of those government workers I had in mind was this otherwise fine and upstanding woman I dated for a while, and I remember that one time when I brought up the fact that one of the consequences of the economic mobilization of women–that is to say, the introduction of women into the labor force–the labor force doubled and therefore wages went considerably downward, she berated me for blaming feminism for the destruction of the middle and working class. Of course, that was not my intention at all, I was simply trying to point out a basic fact; but, sensitive as she was about these issues, she could not help but jump to the conclusion that I wanted to oppress women or something.
Without question, it really is the case that the earning power of most men who work for a living were and are set back significantly by offshoring, automation, mass immigration and, yes, the fact that women now are expected to work. It is just unfortunate that people cannot point these things out without incurring the kinds of unjustifiably hostile responses from people exhibited by people more interested in political correctness than they are in coming to a better understanding of the world as it is. For instance, there are plenty of people who, when one points out that offshoring, automation, mass immigration and the introduction of women into the labor force, will accuse one of being some sort of anti-globalist, racist and anti-feminist luddite. This, I think, is sad.
More broadly speaking, however, men are indeed facing some serious problems, and not only economic ones. This isn’t true for all men, but it does seem as if post-industrial modernity, which incidentally men created, is not so salubrious for men at large. These days, I tend to have some sympathy for those men who decide to opt out entirely, who deliberately forgo higher education and settle for low wage jobs so that they can subsidize their addictions to video games and porn.
Some men’s rights dude in a suit saying women’s rights is a problem because biotrooths, is in essence no different than a zealous IS warrior shouting that women being slaves is the will of Allah. What differs is rhetoric and presentation, not the end result of their argument. They both want women’s roles and place in society decided and defined by men, for the benefit of men.
And no. It’s not “political correctness” to react strongly to someone who considers your rights and freedoms to be a *problem*. For outside forces, that’s why we has a military – for internal forces, it’s why we have police and anti-terror laws. It’s the major reason why I support the rights of individuals to own and bear firearms. Women will only go back to the kitchen at gunpoint. We already have isolated incidents, like Elliot Rodger, of men going homocidal out of frustration of women living free.
finn,
Please reply to some sort of specifics, otherwise readers have no idea to what you’re referring to. Also, characterizing other positions by reference to the lunatic fringe — present on all sides in every dispute — is a bit odd.
Perhaps you’d like to try again?
”Also, characterizing other positions by reference to the lunatic fringe — present on all sides in every dispute — is a bit odd.”
Guilt by association. Which in this case is used of particular ideas no matter how true they are to de-legitimize those ideas. As if truth is no longer truth because of who speaks it.
For example if a conspiracy theorist or a madman says: 1+1=2. Solely by this person’s logic. Therefore because a crackpot or lunatic said this 1+1 does not =2.
infowarrior,
Yes, guilt by association and judging by who said rather than what said are standard tools. We all do them (like steriotyping), since life is too short to absorb the nearly infinite stream of info in which we live. The key is to void overuse and misuse.
However, “characterizing by reference to the lunatic fringe” is a different and explicitly distortive tool. It’s is a primary tool of climate activists. For example, “lukewarmers” (dumb lablel, imo) point to the large peer-reviewed literature on the pause in atmospheric warming since aprox 2000 — activists call them deniers, lumping them with the fringe who say there has been no warming during the past 2 centuries (per the IPCC, more than half of the warming since 1950 due to anthropogenic factors). It’s propaganda, politicizing and polarizing the debate.
Since Nature’s god has a sense of humor, it’s worked to their disadvantage — potentially crippling the Left’s largest project of this generation.
“Except, the problem is not free women; it’s men who can’t deal with or adopt to free women.”
Love how you distort history. It’s the feminist way. It’s long past time women stepped up and started carrying their own weight. Prior to current times, men were forced to carry the weaker sex both physically and financially. Glad those times are coming to an end.
Men aren’t doing worse than women. Women figured out how to use the law to destroy the patriarchy (destroy men) and use the white knights in the state and federal government to enforce the anti-male laws and policies women enjoy today. The white knights will continue to throw the majority of men under the bus. Why? To get elected/re-elected by the gynocracy – through extortion and blackmail. Men in power dare not stand up for men or they’ll find themselves out of work very quickly. To wit:
Title IX
Yes Means Yes
No-fault divorce
The VAWA
Alimony
Child Support (alimony light)
Affirmative Action
Quotas
Feminist control of academia
False rape, domestic violence and harassment
Majority of discretionary state and federal funding for women and women only programs
Exclusion from selective service
WIC
SNAP
Women only scholarships
Coming soon: free childcare for women, paid maternity leave for women, quotas for the highest paid positions for women.
Women are doing well because of extortionist, misandric laws and policies that give women preferential treatment over men, the power to blackmail men and force the transfer of wealth and power from men to women.
The next time you see a woman or white knight point to the heavily debunked dictionary definition of feminism (that feminism is about equality) – consider this: The women’s movement is about (1) destroying the patriarchy – which means using misandric laws to force the redistribution/theft of wealth and power from men to women, (2) liberating women sexually – which means making it acceptable for women to cuckold their husbands/boyfriends and (3) freeing women from the slavery of marriage – which means making the state the father so that women can sleep with whom they choose while still transferring men’s wealth to themselves via taxes, child support, free childcare, paid maternity leave, WIC, SNAP, etc, etc, etc.
Everything feminists claim as truth is the opposite of the truth. Ever wonder why the false ‘1 in 5’ rape stat became defacto truth? Because if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. Those that can’t/don’t take the time to look deeper into the facts are duped/intimidated into believing the lie. That is the feminist way – ignore reality, shame and intimidate detractors into silence and ruin the lives of those that don’t support your misandric cause.
Get a tin foil hat. Most of the stuff on the list has been made necceccary as a REACTION to women being discriminated and getting the short end of the stick, simply for being women. They are in place not as “misandry” – but to combat MISOGYNIST practices. And no, it’s not “oppressive” that men have to pay for their own children, even if they are deemed less fit than the mother to have custody.
And ending Patriarchy isn’t about destroying men. It’s about freeing women from men’s control. And the few men who are “destroyed” by no longer having a priviliged position over women by default… deserve about as much considerations as southern slave owners “destroyed” by having to free their slaves. I.e. none.
finn,
Again you are ignoring the point of this post — and this series — which is that women are quickly moving ahead of men. Eyes tightly closed is not a useful debating method.
As for the list, I believe Tim was saying that these measures seem inappropriate when women are rapidly taking the lead in society. For example, women-only programs, learning aids, and scholarship are wildly inappropriate in an education system in which they’re doing so much better than men.
I forgot absurdly lighter sentences for equal crimes when compared to the sentences men get. In many cases, women are simply let go on probation where men are convicted and do hard time. Feminists are truly full of it. The war has always been on men – not women.
And “Yes means Yes”??
Sure, actually expecting men to keep it in their pants unless the woman consents, is much oppressive towards men… Are You Serious?!
finn,
I don’t know if you’re just unusually closed-minded or a troll, but that’s absurd. A wide range of people — men and women, laypeople and attorneys — have discussed the weirdness of the “yes means yes” program. It is a large step beyond “no means no.” If you are ignorant of this debate, we’ll just consider you a troll and move on.
And my argument is, that it’s absurd to see this as a problem. Women are doing better because they now have the opportunity to – and because feminism is finally changing society to where women are encouraged to act asserive and assured (young girls FINALLY have female action heroes who are REAL action heroes, to look up to).
No one is holding men back. We are simply no longer holding women back. Of course men will not reach as high – both relative to women who are encouraged to compete – and objectively, now that women no longer are forced into a gender role specifically designed to support men in what they do (at the expense of women’s own accomplishments and self-actualization).
Yes. Women are doing better. Better than many men, even.
No – this is not a problem – because it’s not a result of discrimination against men, but of ending discrimination against women. You can’t expect women to limit themselves, pretend to be weak, helpless waifs in desperate need for a man to lead them, just so mean can feel big and in charge – and want to marry again.
“Get a tin foil hat. Most of the stuff on the list has been made necceccary as a REACTION to women being discriminated and getting the short end of the stick, simply for being women. ”
Women didn’t even bother entering the work force until jobs became less laborious and less life shortening/threatening. Watch “The Men Who Built America” to see why women preferred to work at home. You’re a typical feminist liar that hopes to distort the truth for anti-male gain. Everything that comes from your man-hating mouth is going to be an outright lie. If what you say is true – why are there no women screaming about women’s dominance on college campuses, you hypocritical buffoon! I already know what you’re going to say (lie), to wit:
“As women were discriminated against for centuries (a lie twisted to hide the fact that men carried women financially and physically for centuries) it’s only fair that men experience the same oppression.”
Women COULDN’T enter the workforce equally until feminism had somewhat eroded the social requirement of women to stay at home and NOT work. Even then women STILL had to face discrimination and sexual objectification in the male dominated workforce.
You never carried women. You kept them down and dependent for your own benefit. It was men who kept women away from business and society at large – and women who had to fight their way in.
The only one sprouting lies, is you. As expected from a history-revising woman hater.
And why would women see problems with women doing well at college? Women get an equal chance, they use it well – go figure. Women don’t discriminate against men like men did against women, when women first were even allowed to attend higher ed in numbers.
finn and Tim,
While this debate about the obvious past is perhaps enlightening to those just emerged from caves, it is totally irrelevant to this post. I’ve let this run because I am too tolerant.
This post is about trends of the present and their effects of the future. Please attempt to stay on topic. I very much dislike having to moderate discussions.
FINN,
There is little evidence to suggest that women were ever actually forced to be ‘helpless child bearers’.
The only nation that I can think of where that would apply would be Athens.
In most of Greece, they either didnt care or they wanted women to be
strong and independent. The best example of this would be the Spartans.
The
Spartans let their women do what they want, and even encouraged strong
independent behaviour in them as it was believed that strong independent
women were both a benefit to society as well as fine mothers to strong,
independent daughters and strong, confident Spartan males.
And
if you look at the intrigues, courtly goings on and other such things
throughout the Dark Ages, the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, you can
see that women were far from been ‘forced’ to do much of anything and
were in fact large and influential forces throughout those eras.
In
the late medieval era and the Renaissance, especially in Italy, for
every Niccolo Machiavelli, there was a Caterina Sforza. For every loud,
attention-grabbing, war veteran king or noble, there was a cunning,
intelligent and manipulative queen or noble lady.
Women are far from been the victims they are portrayed as.
Females are keenly aware of their surroundings and won’t hesitate to exploit them to their benefit. They are no different than men, when exploiting things to their advantage. Quit putting women on a pedestal and look at the context of situations.
Another example: – I’d like to mention Maria Theresia of the Habsburg dynasty. She was the ruler of The Habsburg dominion and as such, she was the sovereign of Austria, Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia, Mantua, Milan, Lodomeria and Galicia, the Austrian Netherlands and Parma. And By marriage she became the Duchess of Lorraine, Grand Duchess of Tuscany and Holy Roman Empress.
She reigned in the middle of the 18th century from 1740-1780. To be more precise, which means she sat upon the throne for 40 years. And when death parted her with her throne she left the dominion in a far better state than she found it in when first sitting upon it. Before her ascension to the throne, the dominion was ruled by 2 rulers, one Habsburg and one Bohemian. Through her efforts she made sure the dominion was unified under one ruler, her. And she never allowed her husband to interfere in matters of ruling her states, unlike todays “strong independent” women that can’t wait to hand over the wheel to a man.
She was also a mother of 16 children, which is yet another example of her superiority to todays feminists who fail at both fronts. Both in career and as mothers. LOL
(as all books have an agenda, for, as Derrida famously observed, “there is no text without context”
“Women COULDN’T enter the workforce equally until feminism had somewhat eroded the social requirement of women to stay at home and NOT work. ”
BULLSHIT! Women didn’t enter the workforce BY CHOICE and EXPECTED men to provide for and protect women – UNTIL work meant women didn’t need to RISK THEIR LIVES, MUSS THEIR HAIR OR BREAK THEIR NAILS. Back then you were shamed as a man if you didn’t proved for and protect women – BY WOMEN AND MEN!
MARRIAGE WAS SLAVERY FOR MEN – NOT WOMEN!
Tim,
No profanity here. Let’s try and keep this on an adult level.
From your reaction, I guess you’ve been lying as much to yourself as to others. I could dig up links that show how women were legally and socially discriminated in regards to working, in ye olden days…. but let’s keep it simple; If you were right, there would be nothing hindering women from doing “men’s work” other than herself; any women could enter a male dominated workplace and expect to be treated as one of the guys – with no comments due to her gender, no objectifying slurs thrown at her, no unwanted looks, slurs, etc.
I’m guessing even you realize that this is not the case.
“No profanity here. Let’s try and keep this on an adult level.”
My apologies.
Tis okay. I’ve made my point. finn is a feminist liar and can’t logically dispute anything I’ve written. Instead, I’m attacked with shaming language (Google ‘feminist shaming language’ for the full list). That the patriarchy was an oppressive institution is the biggest of all feminist, man-hating lies.
Hey finn – here’s a question for you! If the patriarchy was such an oppressive institution, then how did all of the policies that you claim as necessary for past oppression come into being?! Exactly who voted in those laws, FINN? Wasn’t it men that voted those laws and policies into being?
You’re full of it finn. You and I both know it. The world is waking up to feminist misandry. Your time is coming to a close. Eventually, the truth always prevails. Every wonder why hatred towards feminists is growing? Now you know.
“From your reaction, I guess you’ve been lying as much to yourself as to others. I could dig up links that show how women were legally and socially discriminated in regards to working,…”
So can I, finn! gynocentrism.com is a site you should really visit. Why? Because it thoroughly and completely breaks down the feminist lies. Ever hear of the white feather campaign, finn? If you didn’t, there’s a reason for that. What’s that reason, finn? It makes women look really, really, really bad. Like cowardly and monstrously oppressive bad. Feminists don’t talk about things that make women look like monsters. Instead, they focus only on those things that make women look like victims and men look like monsters.
gynocentrism.com, finn. A one stop shop for a full debunking of your feminist lies.
You couldn’t come with any explanations, then. As for white feather. How much actual political power was behind it? How much force of law? Exactly none, I’d wager, because women didn’t have that kind of power in those days. The entire white feather thing was based on women hurting men’s feelz by calling them cowards. With the power balance in general being solely in favor of men… that is nothing – literally – nothing, to complain about.
As for how “monstrous” those women were for causing men some hurt feels… well, seeing as women were second-class citizens. Subjugated and expected to submit to men by law…. yeah, you get in your hits where you can. I don’t blame them for inflicting what “harm” they could on their male “masters”.
And the site? Sure, sounds about as objective as Fox – like visiting Stormfront to learn the “truth” of Jewish history. The ranting might be good for a laugh, but that’s it.
Tim and Finn,
Please knock off the schoolyard bickering. This website is for discussion of complex important matters on the edge of the known. And this kind of chatter drives off serious people, Last warning.
So that everyone here knows what a man-hating, lying, full of it feminist finn really is:
The White Feather Campaign
http://www.angryharry.com/Men-Are-Worthless.htm
Once you understand how deeply feminists distort reality for purposes of destroying good men (the patriarchy), you can more fully appreciate their underlying sociopathy and penis envy.
That the patriarchy was anti-female is the biggest and best feminist distortion of reality ever told. You need a genius feminist sociopath to come up with the brainwashing and distortions of reality with which feminists now claim as truth. Need more proof? Here you go:
http://www.facebook.com/ExposingFeminism
Tim,
It’s like a zoo. The sign says “Don’t feed the Trolls.” The guards enforce violations.
I suspect you probably have some interesting things to say about this post.
Lol. I have a reply in mind, but will respect EotFMw, so I’m dropping the debate.
finn,
Thank you. You probably have some useful observations about this post, and the future. It’s the unknown country.
“I suspect you probably have some interesting things to say about this post.”
I love the trolls. Why? Their lies are so simple to defeat – but only after you’ve studied feminism, gynocentrism and misandry. They come in and spout their lies and then people like me debunk them with the obvious truth. Not everyone is prepared to deal with the trolls. Why? Little to no debating experience with feminists. Many are intimidated by feminist trolls. Not I. What I showed here was an important step in male progress. I didn’t kowtow to a feminist.
Marriage is dying because its more profitable for women to maintain the illusion that marriage is good for men, dupe men into marriage, transfer men’s wealth to women through divorce and then claim that men are evil oppressors so that every law and policy is geared toward privileges for women. Marriage is dying because feminists ruined it with their lies. Feminists are the enemy, not the patriarchy.
The gynocracy isn’t going to give up their ill gotten privileges over men – so hypothesizing about a future in which men and women work together again is a waste of time. The 1950s are gone for good.Just like most people stood by during the Nazi destruction of the Jews and during the KKK destruction of blacks, those that benefit from the denigration and destruction of men will sit idly by. They will not act in any meaningful way until it becomes abundantly clear that the destruction of men offers little in return. Until then – you’re only going to get lip service. I’m not talking about just the feminists here. I’m talking about most women and also the cowardly, naive white knights that kowtow to women to remain in power.
I know that this will never happen, but there needs to be a men’s studies course in high school and college. “The Manipulated Man”, “The Myth of Male Power” and “Stand By Your Manhood” are three books with which every young adult male should be exposed.
Men need to understand that the destruction of the patriarchy – the primary feminist goal – means to destroy men and the transfer of their power and wealth to women through force of law. This destruction isn’t a game. It’s real – and women are out for blood. This redistribution of wealth has been going on for several decades and has been monumentally successful for women – leaving hundreds of thousands of men dead from financial annihilation and suicide.
While women were busy being taught how to dominate and control men by feminists, boys were left unschooled in how men have been brutalized by women over the past several decades. Young men need to be taught that women are not their friends and are instead their competitors and adversaries – even within marriage. Mothers – rather than teaching their sons the supposed joys of marriage – should introduce their sons to the all too common, total life destruction men undergo through divorce. As that doesn’t serve the gynocracy – that will never happen. Boys will continue to be sent out naive in the ways of women. Why? Because boys and men are disposable; hence male-only selective service.
Feminists own the colleges now. The reason they’re going after the fraternities is because being a member of a frat – especially the Greek frats – means you have a huge advantage in life. Feminists don’t like that – so they’re trying to either destroy the frats or force them to be co-ed. It’s all about destroying the patriarchy and transferring men’s power and wealth to women. They will win.
The Rolling Stone piece didn’t have anything to do with rape. It’s all about money, power and control – and the Greek frats have lots of it. Because of this – feminists will do everything in their power to destroy them. The Rolling Stone debacle was a laser guided attack against Greek frats to force their closure or force them to become co-ed.
Feminists control all of academia now and actively discriminate against men and boys. Boys are having a tough time in school because the girls are favored by their feminist teachers and the boys are denigrated for being male. You’d think the feminists would want all girl schools. Know why they don’t? That’s easy. Because they can’t run the men’s schools if they’re all male. Having co-ed everything ensures they can use false rape, sexual assault and harassment to get rid of all the male management and teachers. This is why fewer and fewer men become teachers and why many quit the profession. Feminists do want female only STEM classes however. They already have many and will get more and more.
“Yes Means Yes” has nothing to do with rape. It’s all about the redistribution of men’s power and wealth to women. It’s literally legalized blackmail and extortion through use of fear and/or false accusations. This is the real “rape culture”. This is the gynocracy’s method of choice in redistributing men’s wealth and power to themselves.
Lest we forget – it was the white knights of the patriarchy that brought “Yes Means Yes” into being. Obama himself spearheaded this particular destruction of college men. All legislation that discriminates against men in favor of women was put in place my powerful male leaders at the behest of the gynocracy. Why? For purposes of garnering votes from women to remain in power. These men gladly threw the majority of men under the bus to maintain the favor of the gynocracy – leaving a path of destroyed men in their wake.
If I had a son – I’d tell him to never get married nor cohabit with a woman and to avoid unrecorded intimate encounters with women like the plague. If I had a daughter – I’d tell her to do whatever she wanted.
Intriguing take on the situation (from a woman): “Why You’re Not Married.”
Thomas,
Thanks! I’ve added this to the post.
Wouldn’t it be fair to say that many if not most of these statements could apply equally well to men? I know from personal experience that there are just as many men as there are women who are angry, shallow, selfish, insecure, sexually indiscriminate, or dishonest with themselves and others. I know that there are plenty of women in the world who have one or even several of these faults — but the point is that these are HUMAN faults and not limited to one gender of the other, suggesting that women are not the only ones responsible for the failure of marriage. I’m all in favor of people of both genders developing an appropriate level of self-awareness so that they can acknowledge their own faults and accept responsibility for what they contribute to their own problems including their marital problems.
Some comments in this post like Jinn’s are whats wrong with America. Where is the Argentina guerrilla guy when we need him? Let’s hope he fixes and finnishes
David,
I’m bored with “what’s with America” article. They’re just entertainment for the outer party, an outlet for their feelings of apathy. Boring.
More interesting is to speculate about the future, and discuss ways to influence it.
Over the past 40+ years, tens upon tens of millions of men’s lives have been destroyed through divorce. Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of those men, upon realizing that their future was destroyed, committed suicide. How did this happen? No fault divorce. As a bread winning man, your wife can cheat on you, cuckold you and then walk away with most of your assets and future income. While she’s off writing the next chapter of her life with the pool boy or bartender, you’ll be forced by law to finance her life goals through alimony and child support – else go to jail. Did you know that child support is another form of alimony? Why is that true? Because child support is based on what you make. It goes up exponentially based upon what you earn – and is tax deductible to the recipient (your now deeply hated X wife), not the payer (the man fool who will die homeless).
There has been a deep decline in marriage rates over the past several decades, that perfectly aligns with the implementation of no-fault divorce.
Feminism has never been about equality. Feminism is about the destruction of the patriarchy. What does that mean? It means the destruction of men and the redistribution of their wealth and power to women. It means better outcomes for women and far worse outcomes for men. In other words, feminism isn’t about equality of opportunity or equality of outcome. Feminism is about female superiority. In the US, thanks to their dead husbands, fathers and divorce raped X husbands, women now hold the majority of US wealth.
If you think the feminists are crazy – you’re kidding yourself. The feminists will win. They’ve been winning for several decades. In the not too distant future, women will be far more privileged members of society than men than they already are. In the US, women already receive the majority of state and federal funding for heath, education and welfare. Men are the majority of poor and homeless. Laws are already in place to specifically privilege women over men and to give women easy access to destroy men’s lives (no-fault divorce, Title IX, Yes Means Yes, Affirmative Action, the VAWA, etc). These laws and policies have nothing to do with equality and everything to do with ensuring women’s privilege over men and the redistribution of men’s wealth and power to women.
The pope recently made the statement that men need to stop blaming feminism for their problems. THE POPE SAID THIS! Know why? For the same reason white knight politicians pander to women for their votes. Gotta keep the meat in the seats, keep the birth rates up, keep men stupid, married and divorce raped, keep the money rolling in and keep the gynocracy voting for socialism/Marxism.
The last thing you want to do as a man is get married.
Yes. It’s very important that everyone recognize that it’s all about divide and conquer. Unfortunately, the majority of women will sit back and watch men be destroyed. Why? Because the denigration of men and the redistribution of wealth from men to women suits them. The bonus is – so long as they don’t claim to be feminists – they really had nothing to do with the plight of men. It’s no different than the mass silence of people during the slave days or the mass silence while the Jews were being slaughtered. There was an unacknowledged, unspoken gain being had – and those having it weren’t going to rock the boat. Sure – there’s a minority of women out there working for true fairness and equality, but the vast majority of women will sit idly by as men are pushed further and further down the economic and social ladder. What we get most right now is what I like to call “equality lip service”. “Feminism helps men, too.” LOL. See any women fighting against women’s dominance in college? Nope!
Now that men are opting out of marriage in record numbers and the birth rate is collapsing in Westernized nations, even the pope is getting his white knight on. Unfortunately, that means more male shaming and pandering to the gynocracy. That in turn means more division and more men opting out of marriage and family. Tis a return to the days of the fall of Rome.
With all the evidence we have to date, it’s clear that feminism is about privileging women at the expense of men’s lives; which is why you don’t see a strong, organized effort to nix male-only selective service or any other federal or state program that is unfairly funded or targeted at privileging women over men.
I can definitely see where the rich would want women to have power, privilege and carefully disguised, man-hating authority over men. Why? Women create the next generation of wage and tax slaves. To the rich, keeping them happy and men subservient to women works in both women’s and the rich’s favor. For these reasons, every effort will be made to either boost the marriage and birth rates or to divert even more wealth and power from men to women. These “programs” will be extremely stealthy. Examples are the “cohabitation rights bill” in the UK, which was specifically written to give women rights to alimony and asset division upon breakup, “Yes Means Yes”, which is a back door method of opening men up to civil law suits, a way to give women totalitarian control over sex (See Brian Banks and other high profile athletes) and a way for women to attack and destroy patriarchal power structures (see Rolling Stone and the Greek Fraternity attack) and female only STEM classes (they already exist).
Feminism is all about money, power and control and the transfer of such from men to women. As the video in question indicates, one way or another, feminists are here to make sure that redistribution of power and wealth happens. Men opting out of marriage and family will not stop that redistribution. No-fault divorce isn’t the only way to “get er done”.
I don’t think most men realize what feminists are talking about when they talk about the “wage gap” – including the white knight pope. The point women are making isn’t so much that men make more than women. The point women are making is that men make more because the things with which they choose to endeavor are more financially valuable (STEM fields) in the open market. To women, the jobs in which they normally endeavor should be paid more to compensate for the intrinsic lower market value of those positions (the not so STEM fields). Yes, this is most certainly socialism/Marxism. This video makes that ABUNDANTLY clear.
If you want to see the future of the US and all Westernized nations, look to Sweden. Converting all Western nations to Sweden has been the goal of progressives all along.
The video to which I refer can be found at the following link. The woman in the video is proposing that men be actively discriminated against. Why? Feminists are the greatest of the narcissistic sociopaths. Read and judge for yourself. Keep in mind, this is a UN speech:
http://stgeorgewest.blogspot.com/2015/05/un-advises-women-need-more-in-order-to.html
Tim,
I was looking for something more focused on the points made in this post. Also, long general comments imo don’t accomplish much. They state how you feel, but cover too much ground for debate and provide little or no evidence. The FM website has had 39 thousand comments; on that firm basis it’s clear that long ones are seldom read. Yours is 1200 words, longer than most posts here (and these are long-form articles by internet standards).
I suggest shorter comments, making a specific point with some supporting evidence.
Tim:
What is so incredible to me is that even after proving a child is NOT biologically his, a man is STILL forced to pay child support for up to 18-26 years (yes, some states go beyond age 18!). The excuse: “you cannot harm the child”.
This is the SAME excuse used by the “anchor babies of illegal aliens deserve welfare” crowd. “You cannot punish the illegal’s baby”. Never mind the illegal alien will greatly benefit from the Anchor Baby’s welfare benefits (food stamps, WIC, Section 8 housing, etc), while paying no income/SS/FICA/SUTA taxes.
In some States and all of Canada today, even if you want to be a good man and marry a single mom, when it is 100% clear her child from year before is not yours, and even if you do NOT adopt her child, she can STILL collect child support from you after a divorce! :-o That is because you “acted as a father”, even if her child(ren) treated you with contempt or if they pulled a “you are not my Dad!” rebuttals daily from your step child(ren).
It is almost as if they WANT to hurt families and good men trying to do “the right thing”. Doing “the right thing” becomes more and more difficult to know and discern in this insane world that we life in….
Feminism is about women’s control and power over men. It is not and has never been about equality.
Feminists are cunning and they are funded by leftist Globalists (i.e. George Soros, et.al), who understand every leftist ideology and political movement in the planet is backed almost entirely by women. Western Europe’s Muslim invasion is backed by female voters repeatedly vote for the same politicians who keep “open border” policies (Merkel, for example). Mao Zedong used his “red shirt brigade” of women during his “Cultural Revolution”. Stalin relied on female backers heavily early in his rise to power. The Democrats rely heavily on single female votes nationally. France’s left handpicked good-looking Macron to drive up female voters.
The left does NOT need to explain policies or show how leftist policies will benefit women. They just need to get out the female vote and it is a victory for the left.
And incredibly, women are hurt the most by these policies (economic destabilization, Muslim rape spheres, joblessness, poverty, etc). But women never plan ahead. Their idea of “planning” is what time to meet her girls for brunch on Sunday. *roll eyes*
This Pope is doing his best to collapse the Catholic Church. He is a disgrace.
The Pope also said the Muslim Invaders are the “Warriors of Hope” (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/01/pope-francis-tells-migrants-you-are-warriors-of-hope/).
Understand that even Conservative women will rarely (if ever) speak up about the injustices done to men in the world. They WANT to have the “divorce rape” card in their back pocket “just in case”. Women want security, they have a “herd mentality” (thus attraction to Socialism and Communism) and what is better then having tools to oppress men? They do not want to give up “their rights”.
One Law School Professor said to me “men have all the duties and obligations. Women have all the rights and privileges”. A truer statement cannot be made by a politically-moderate legal scholar. Oh and some law schools that teach “legal realism” (as does my current Law School,), are openly now stating that “many accusations of rape against men are false” and “women always eviscerate men in a divorce”.
The Legal community KNOWS this and yet allow the party to go on. The benefit to lawyers is too great (watch “Divorce Corp” movie, you will understand). At least the “the law is fair” nonsensical teaching is gone in some law schools. They are teaching Legal Realism, so that is a step in right direction to eventually fix some of the legal mess we have. :)
BTW, Western Europe is a preview for America in 10-20 years, if we do not take dramatic steps to right this ship.
I have to say, after the Trump election, I thought we could begin to right this ship and try to salvage what is left of this wonderful country. It has been hard and Trump is still delivering and still fighting, even when under attack (see Rob Porter incident and his Tweet response). But seeing all the overwhelming opposition Trump has faced, he is only ONE HUMAN MALE, and he is under attack 24/7.
The question for us American men will be “do we leave Trump to be mauled by the wolves? Do we abandon our country to its fate, a certain demise? Do we let Trump stand alone?”
I will not. I will stand and fight this system, as long as I draw breath. Do not “swallow the black pill” just yet, my fellow men. There is still hope for America, even if we men must shun marriage, MGTOW, Red Pill, or whatever. There is still hope. :)
ChristianCool
Ps. Editor: I will shorten my comments next time. ;) Thanks for the head’s up! Chris
Editor,
Thanks for your reply. What I wrote is being read the world over. It’s being discussed and dissected in exactly the way I just described. It doesn’t matter if what I wrote fits the desired format. What I wrote is the next big thing. What I wrote is the future. Those that read and comprehend will dissect what I wrote and dispense it in the appropriate quantities. What I wrote will become the national conscious of many nations.
Thanks for giving me the forum in which to express my views. There are many such forums – and I’m a major contributor on each.
I’ve been writing voraciously for several years. I’m among the unknown that help drive the metamorphosis you’re witnessing.
Men are “going Galt”. Marriage is dying. I’m going to dedicate the rest of my life to make sure that happens. Why? To save men from the horrors of marriage for men.
No fault divorce is the worst of them. I know someone personally who lost a year’s salary to a woman after only 4 years of marriage. With him there on the couch a blubbering mess with “how to commit suicide” pages open on his browser, it convinced me that there is such a thing as “lawful evil” and no fault divorce provides the best vehicle.
The language is incredibly destructive. It sends the message “it’s not her fault she cheated on you, it’s not her fault she is extorting you, it’s not her fault you paid her way and then gave you a bunch of legal bills in return.” If you apply Hitler’s wisdom here, eventually these statements will hold true for the victim giving way to Stockholm syndrome.
Tony,
Thanks for the comment. I had not thought about that. The usual critique of no-fault divorce is that it unilaterally (without consent of both parties) changed the marriage contract. Women who had invested decades in marriage could be tossed aside.
On the other hand, women initiate 85% of divorces — so the system does not look tilted against them. And, judged by the complaints that so many men have the “peter pan syndrome” (i.e., will not marry), women believe that the institution of marriage works well for them. So they’re happy with both ends of the family-making social machinery.
The numbers suggest that increasing numbers of men are not. When I have time I will write a follow-up to this. It’s one of the most important yet undercovered trends in US society.
Sadly, Tim, I have to agree with you. :( Here is why:
I grew up with divorced parents, but this divorce was 100% my father’s fault with his endless cheating on my Mother (many times, me and my brother witnessed his numerous girlfriends on the side). My father is a true Alpha and a player to boot, I have to admit. But my father squandered a wonderful wife who cooked, cleaned, raised his two sons, and worked part time as a Veterinarian, while staying in shape for him. My mom was able to remarry at age 49, with me and my brother still living at home, because she is very pretty woman.
For years, I grew up with a stepfather (who never took the “father role”, which was never needed since my Dad was a presence in our lives. My father re-married a horrible woman, a truly vile human being. So I KNOW what a “broken home” is like. I know the financial hardships we endured.
Despite all this, because of my Catholic, then later Baptist-Christian upbringing, I got married at age 23. Wife was 23 also, American too, but she is a Midwestern Christian woman, and her notch count was 4, and before me, she dated this guy for 4 years and they lived together, but he refused to marry, so she moved on. My marriage was probably the best thing I ever did in my life, since she was true wife, through and true.
I did compromise a bit to marry her. I married a 7 in appearance woman while I am a solid 8, 8.5 n a good day. That gave me an edge, and she KNEW she was getting a “good deal”. She got to marry an Alpha 1.0 male, who was good-looking, ambitious, and good in bed. She got the better end of the deal in that sense, but I wanted qualities that she had such as her honesty, loyalty, Christian faith, and her meekness, which allowed me to mold her into a much more rational, agreeable, and submissive wife. Yes, back at 23 I was not the financial success I am today and she stuck around with me through thick and thin. We lived very very modestly for years…. pizza at restaurant once a week was a luxury.
Because of my ambition and desire to attend law school, we never had kids. We delayed kids, despite HER wanting kids very much and me wanting kids, but wanting to wait. I ALWAYS used (without telling her) condoms with Nonoxynol-9 and I used that as lubricant too. I was very paranoid about this, as she was still a woman wanting to have kids, and we always had Plan-B at home on hand and I flushed all condoms on trash (I put condoms when I was around 70% ready to go).
Later, she was killed in car crash by illegal alien driving drunk (middle of the day) and I suddenly found myself single again at 35. No kids, no debt, no student loans left…. I now have a house, a car, and my cat. I am back at age 23 before I got married, trying to figure out what to do next. But marriage seems highly unlikely for me.
You see, because my marriage was a major success that allowed ME to me breakthroughs in my career and develop my life skills so much, I have always been a proponent of marriage because, despite growing up in a divorced family myself. For years, people asked me “what is your secret to being married” and all that.
But that is no longer the case. I have become an almost-fanatical OPPONENT of marriage since her passing. I have seen men devastated, I have seen tragedies, and I have changed my mind. While re-learning “dating skills” in an insane world that went from “love songs by boy bands” in the 1990s to the current “hook-up culture” and the world of “Eat Pray Love” divorces, I came across RoK, Chateu Heartiste, and Dalrock’s websites. I began only reading up on dating to get my game back up (I had not run game in person on women in years, so I needed to re-learn some tricks. Mind you, I approached a lot of women when Tinder did not exist, only websites a-la “You’ve Got Mail” movie, so I have always been good at conversation and quite good at running game). In any case….
After reading a lot on Red Pill, MGTOW, and then attending Law School, I understand now I dodged a massive bullet here with my sweet woman. My late wife was a rose amongst the thorns, I would say. Most men will NOT be so lucky!!!! Therefore, buyer beware.
The women in our country have declined in quality so much, I sometimes pray my wife would come back from the dead. :-/ To put mildly, about 95% of the women I meet in either FL or CO (I have dual residences), are not “girls that you marry”, so to speak. They have ridden the Carrousel so long, I met 28 year old that look like 40. I find myself in a crazy world filled with Lindsay Lohan look-alikes and with fake “sweet girls” with zero sparkle in their eyes (thousand c*ck stare).
These women are also have no abilities to engage in the “give and take” that is needed to have a successful marriage. The vast majority of women I meet today are simply too damaged to marry. They have had their souls scoured by their own bad decisions with men and they want to dump all their hate on me. *roll eyes*
They are simply looking for a Beta Provider. That ain’t me. I will “provide” for a decent woman, but it seems almost impossible to find given how the culture deteriorated so fast while I was married almost 12 years.
I am a Positive-Realist and a hardened Empiricist and I look at evidence, experience, observation, and facts. That is why I am a Christian (yes, that is right), and that is why I CANNOT support marriage any longer. The risk-benefits for men are simply un-acceptable. Marriage today is court-enforced slavery; it allows women to physically abuse men who cannot fight for fear of arrest, and have their life stolen by a wayward woman. , it is worse then Bernie Madoff scam.
I second what Tim said – marriage, as it is today in Western World, has to change or die. It cannot continue as an institution that is designed to hurt, exploit, and control men. Such a corrupt institution is just as immoral as “unmarried fornication”, for lack of a better world. No Christian can condone “marriage” as it is today, with a clear conscience. That is not what God wanted for marriage; that is FemiNazism at its worse.
My .2 cents.
Christian
“Will society survive?”
I smiled when I read this Post; knowing a bit about the Editor, I smiled. The answer is …why of course. Pendulums of social changes swing over time back and forth. And over generations, that is why these ideas are so fascinating if you wish to engage with them. Sure some men are being faced with diminishing opps, some women are benefitting from some favorable trends and gifts if they so avail themselves of them. Yessiree some ambitious women are discovering a bit late they want a marriage and are hard pressed to find a partner. Some guys will skateboard as long as dad writes the check,
And on and on.
More’s Article is terrific for most of these women enmeshed in a dilemma. But biology is premier.
No Society has, is and will change but will not dissolve.
What a silly thought.
Breton
Breton,
Yes, the title was clickbait.
But survival is a pretty low bar to set for ourselves. It doesn’t mean prosperity or stability (i.e., avoiding disruptive internal conflicts). My point was that we need to think about themselves. Only fools count on the “invisible hand” to see that changes are always pleasant — as in TV shows, with fun, educational, morally uplifting lessons at the end.
That is NOT a “silly thought”. Survival is accurate.
Our American society (and the West, as a whole) are under such assault from all sides, “survival” is not such a drastic term. We have $21 Trillion Dollar debt, 20+ million welfare-thirsty illegal aliens living within our borders, constant Islamic terrorist threat, large-scale immigration (legal and illegal yearly), a military losing its edge due to poor funding (engineered weakening of American males), an economy recovering after a decade lost, Millennials with PhD’s working at Starbucks, and now a quickly-collapsing marriage and civil society.
That is not to mention the fact Americans have nothing in common with each other. The “melting pot” which was held together by Christianity and American patriotism is all but gone. We have a hyper polarized country, where civil unrest is not only possible, it is likely when the “next Hillary” takes power and tries…. I don’t know… an “Australian gun confiscation”?!?! A guarantee for civil unrest.
But regardless of future events, think about how often you hear “there is a total lack of civility and common courtesy today”. I hear that all the time, from Leftists and Conservatives, men and women alike.
Just the other night, I was at Wal-Mart after 10pm on a weeknight (I live in great area and WalMart here is safe and clean). I had a cartful of stuff, and was loading up the conveyor belt register area while cashier finished someone ahead of me. Suddenly, a woman in her mid-20s holding an infant came to the line behind me with 2 items: cold medicine and toilet paper. I looked behind me and I said to her “go ahead in front of me, as cashier has not started on my stuff yet”. This woman was STUNNED… she said 3 times “are you sure? You do not mind?” and she seemed surprised and almost scared (or something!). I guess she never expected any courtesy from a stranger, it seems. I said “yes! Go home and get your little one home” and she was almost in tears!!! :-o The cashier, an old woman in her late 50s if not 60s said to me after she left “what you did used to be common courtesy back in the day, now that lady was shocked”. I told her “I know… I am 35 years old and I still remember that country we used to have” and I sighed deeply. It makes me legitimately sad to see this.
Do you guys remember getting change from cashier and putting it in pocket and assuming it was right without counting? How about barbecue block parties in your neighborhood? How about kids brining .22 “squirrel rifles” and putting them in locker so we could go “hunting” after class and no one shot each other?? How about all sorts of merchandise sitting outside Lowes, and no one stole anything at night?
I am 35 and grew up (mostly) in Central Florida (not the boonies)!!! I am not that old…. America was like that not long ago. That should tell you how hostile we are to each other.
Think about how marginalized young males of ALL races engage antisocial behavior today. Young men are constantly demonized in school, demonized in media, mocked by Feminists, “nuclear rejected” by women, told they are “rapists and abusers” by the media….. They become demoralized and over time, they become angry. The system is set against them, so they engage in “outlets” with violent street crime (predominantly black males), mass shootings (predominantly young white beta males), and gangs (predominantly Hispanic males). The lack of hope = marginalization and violence.
I will not go further…. but yes, SURVIVAL in the title is not an exaggeration. We have real problems in our country, and if we do not right this ship soon, it will be irreversible. Think Sweden in 20 years, a majority Muslim country with a radical feminist welfare-minded populace. It will be a civil catastrophe.
We can go there too, if we do not take steps to save America soon. But in our case, it will be The Fall of the Roman Empire v2.0. -_-
See the white cop suspended for arresting a black woman at a pool party in TX? If it had been a black man or white man resisting, no one would have questioned an officer taking down the man resisting arrest. The vid would never have made it to national news. But in this case, because it was a black/woman being taken down, all of a sudden, it’s a national issue. Cops dare not take down a black – nevertheless a black woman. Does that sound like equality to you? It doesn’t, does it? It sounds like preferential treatment for blacks and women – especially black women. It sounds like preference based on gender, right? It stinks to the high crack of gynocentric preference, does it not? Someone please pass me the feminine deodorant.
See – Lisa and women like Lisa don’t want you to notice these things. Tim and men like Tim do. Why? Because what you see on TV regarding the black pool party girl resisting arrest is representative of all man-hating feminists. Lisa is my new, biggest man hater, next to the most useless of misandrists, finn.
Feminism, like socialism and Marxism sounds great – until you see it play out in real life. Lisa and finn are useful, man-hating idiots.
A note to Lisa and finn:
If you want to eliminate men’s libido and free men from their undesirable, cursed fetish for women, all you need do is administer 50mg of Spironolactone in the AM and PM. This simple daily dose – think of it as a “medication” – will free men and boys from any want or need of women.
The single greatest enemy of men is their desire for women. The single most harmful aspect of a man’s life is his cursed desire for that which will eventually ruin his life. This desire is fueled via testosterone. Eliminate testosterone’s effect and you free both men and women from men’s desire for the manipulative, cunning, hypocritical sex.
I’ll be the first to sign the petition to make the administration of 100mg of Spironolactone, in divided daily doses, mandatory for all men and boys. Think about it, Lisa and finn. No more men to desire you. This is just as good an idea for men as it is for misandrists such as yourselves.
Please, please, please say you’ll support this effort.
Tim I am on 50mg Androcus. But I do get pissed of by the FM crew for their 1950s….misogyny.
Here is something esle, in all my years ‘passing as a male’..the good men, lots of them, maybe even if that can’t know at time how to be good:
Again, men only spaces, lots of grog and the truth comes out. Yes there are the ranters, blamers and the closet misogynsists.
Bit there are also really nice guys, though some stuggle to express it because of ther conditioning. Sometimes they can only do it when they are blind drunk. Good hearts, warm, caring, worried about the world and (if they have them) their children. Really love their partners. The most common statement I have heard from men like that is “my best friend”, my “soulmate”.
Hearing some of them (again usually only drunk) worrying about their wives who have serious health problems could break your heart sometimes. When they pour it out,, after being ‘strong’ and so on. But inside they are dying. “I just wish it was me suffering, she doesn’t deserve it” is not an uncommon statement.
There are those who have broken their restrictive programming, some never do entirely but manage to weaken it.
Maybe we should call feminism, ‘humanism’. Because there are no losers in this in the freedom to be yourself and free from expected roles of behaviour, man or woman, boy or girl. Just be a good human being..
I have noticed something, of all the couples I know, cis hetero males/famales, cis gay males, cis lesbian females, trans and…well whatever….it is complex…the ones that make it, the ones that are happy together…are just good human beings first and foremost.
Lisa,
“But I do get pissed of by the FM crew”
Funniest thing I’ve read today. There is no crew. There are only a few frequent commenters, most of whom are not on this thread.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that this is at least one way in which Western culture has done and continues to do men great injustice and injury — we give them very little freedom to express their emotions. This is particularly true of emotions which are critical to maintaining a happy and healthy partnership (such as affection and vulnerability) and also of emotions which have the capacity to become destructive if they are not allowed expression (such as grief and sadness). This is almost certainly at least part of the explanation behind the higher rates of completed suicide in men — women are more likely to have suicidal thoughts and to attempt suicide but men are far more likely to succeed in killing themselves if they attempt it. (That and the fact that they’re also more likely to use methods which have a high degree of immediate lethality, such as firearms, which makes it very difficult to save them.) Western culture has always allowed women a much greater degree of emotional expression than men (with one exception — the emotion of anger) even though this has also been used in the past as an excuse to keep women “in their place.”
I’m inclined to agree with your earlier assessment that it’s unrealistic in the extreme to think anything other than brute force will compel women as a group to return to “kinder, kuche, und kirche.” As the song from WWI said, “How Ya Gonna Keep Them Down On The Farm (After They’ve Seen Paree)?” These days, only someone who feels contempt for women would argue that women do not deserve any say over decisions that directly affect their own lives. You don’t need to look too far to realize that the essential nature of the universe is growth and change, and that stasis is unnatural and unsustainable — anything that remains static tends to stagnate, and anything that can’t adapt becomes obsolete or goes extinct. That being said, the kind of dramatic paradigm shifts such as those which have been taking place over the last fifty-plus years — not even the blink of an eye on a human scale — with regard to gender roles take a long time to settle comfortably into place, usually more than just one lifetime. It’s becoming fairly obvious that a growing number of people (women as well as men) no longer consider the traditional concept of marriage relevant to their own lives — they might still want to be married because the culture continues to glorify it, but they also know many marriages don’t even come close to measuring up to the images that the culture presents to us. If marriage is going to survive, it will have to adapt to the other changes that have taken place within our society…and if it can’t, then it will be increasingly viewed as antiquated and eventually replaced with something else.
My apologies — I mistakenly attributed the quote from Finn about women only being forced back into the kitchen at gunpoint to you. I do agree with the sentiment, however, even though I was mistaken regarding the source — I don’t think most women would consent to surrender the right to have control over their own lives except at gunpoint and I think it would be unreasonable and unfair to expect them to do so.
I do find it rather ironic that men are beginning to get a personal taste of what women have experienced for centuries…and realizing that it was not exactly a bed of roses, just as women have been discovering that self-sufficiency in the man’s world is not quite everything they had thought it was cracked up to be either. Both genders have experienced their own particular form of suffering — like it or not, pain is a part of the human condition — and it’s a bit self-serving as well as too simplistic for them to blame each other for the problems between men and women. This is the one point — but the only one — which I will concede to the female authors that FM has cited. Women can’t simply blame men for the decline in marriage — we also have to look at the ways in which we’ve contributed to the pattern, One of the reasons why marriage may be on the decline is that feminism (I prefer personism, myself) has sent men the message that we no longer need them — and the plain and simple truth is that we don’t need them in exactly the same way or to the same degree that we once did. If marriage is going to survive, we may need to help men find their sense of value and self-worth in something other than what they do for a living and how much they earn — especially as the “Robot Revolution” takes hold — and women will need to adjust their own priorities accordingly.
That being said, I’m no longer as much of a believer in marriage myself as I once used to be — historically, it has always been first and foremost an economic contract in which a woman traded her sexual favors and her fertility to a man in exchange for financial support for herself and her children. The idea of marrying for love is actually a relatively modern idea — a woman’s family played a much greater role in deciding who she should marry, and often discouraged her from marrying anyone whom they for whatever reason considered inappropriate even if she loved the man. Historically, love was not considered a very stable foundation for marriage — whether a man was capable of supporting a family was far more important, so much so that whether he was actually a nice man or not was often of secondary importance.
We go on and on about gender roles. Being transgendered I am , just, a bit interested in this…..lol.
But it is all a weird combination of genetic, natel hormones and social prgramming.
The most violent, and good at that too, person I ever knew was a women…..I married her. I was the person who talked her down. Now she was 5’3″ and a man who tried to rape her in Melbourne..she put him in hospital. So what does that say about gender/social roles…nothing whatsoever.
I know men who are wonderful writers and painters, I know women who are total capitalists (in all the bad ways) swine. So what does that say about gender/social roles…nothing whatsoever.
After you get rid of the social prgamming there are:
Wonderful, horrible, complex, intelligent,stupid, cruel, kind, sociopthic, empathtic ..etc men.
Wonderful, horrible, complex, intelligent,stupid, cruel, kind, sociopthic, empathtic ..etc women.
On average, about 93% to 98% of those cis/’straight’ people want to get together and share a life.
Of those 3% to 7% , who are different (GLBTI) they also want to get together and share a life. We are so different …not.
Personal experence, just a week ago, young lesbian woman talking about her love and hopes…. and you would have to be a horrible person to not want her to have a good life filled with love, with the person she loves.
GTFO you tranny freak. This article specifically aimed at HETEROSEXUAL MEN. Not mentally sick dykes who can’t tell the difference between a sausage & a camel toe
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Text of this comment deleted by the Editor for violations of the comment policy.
Anon,
Please behave in a civil manner. You are entitled to your own feelings and opinions, of course. But use discretion in where to share them. Nothing more like that here, please.
I have deleted the text in that comment.
Speaking as a woman, FM, I find it very strange (and frankly, a bit insulting) that you choose to include a quote — and one which is quite dismissive and contemptuous of women, if I may be so bold — from a book written more than one hundred years ago as “one woman’s clear thinking about the problem.” Surely there were a number of more modern books which you could have quoted? i find it hard to understand why you felt it necessary to reach that far back — it’s not as if Mary Eliza Joy Haweis is the only woman to have ever written something critical about her own sex and supportive of men and marriage, is it? Wouldn’t something by Phyllis Schlafly (who unsuccessfully ran for Congress twice and whose own mother supported her husband during the Great Depression) have been at least a little more up-to-date?
If such a statement had been drawn from a modern book (unless it was not representative of most of the rest of the text), her remarks would very likely receive widespread criticism from all but the most conservative of women and a great many women (perhaps even most) would probably perceive her as something of a self-loathing throwback — not all misogynists are men! Mary Eliza Joy Haweis is rather obviously a product of her time — a time in which the idea that we’re capable of the same level of intelligence and competence that men are and that we deserve equal consideration under the law and the opportunity to utilize our talents to the utmost was still widely regarded as preposterous. However, we live in a very different time now — one in which society no longer holds the idea that the only thing women are entitled to aspire to are marriage and children and a life of subservience.
Bluestocking,
“i find it hard to understand why you felt it necessary to reach that far back”
These discussions tend to repeat themselves generation by generation, each time unaware of what was said in the past. I find it a bit odd that you don’t see that was my point, since it was clearly stated.
The “clear vision” was meant somewhat ironically. I don’t take sides in these disputes, certainly not in one among women about the desirability of marriage or how to get married.
I was halfway to going Galt before I knew who John Galt was. 2007 when I saw “the fix was in” I went the rest of the way. All my income is under the table or internet based, I exist under the radar and I semiretired aboard a cruising sailboat. My one bill is for a cellphone whose GPS says “Atlantic Ocean” if the NSA is interested. Basically getting ready for when helicopters start falling from the sky, then adios…
anton,
“Helicopters start falling from the sky”
Alien invasion? Change in the laws of physics? I don’t understand.
It is very unfortunate that most of the women nowadays that are so very horrible to begin with especially when most of them these days don’t even have no respect for us good men at all with a very rotten personality altogether now which makes them real pathetic losers as well.
That Truth,
The solution is simple: Be strong. There are many good women out there, one for every good man.
It’s all thanks to Feminism & the mass media. MTV has literally created a generation of sluts.
This is all thanks to 3rd & 4th wave feminism & the Left’s Cultural Marxism. Feminism has droven a wedge between the sexes. It is a cancer & corrosive ideology, & I am so glad men are waking up to its poisonous effects.
Guys “going Galt” or MGTOW are simply men not giving the bicycle the fish claimed to never need in the first place. Feminists always say “they don’t need a man” until they hit the wall or need someone to do the heavy lifting or a utility. Western women (women of UK, US, Canada, Australia) have been brainwashed & poisoned with this crap.
Wanna know why guys are getting married? Just look at the women they have deal with it. Western women nowadays aren’t “marriage material.” They sleep around in their 20s & 30s, cheat, lie, use a guy for his resources, & offer nothing to the table. They rather focus on their careers than have a family. Some of today’s women don’t even know how to act like women. Western women aren’t loyal. Women who act like men are REPULSIVE to us guys. Many of these Western women have baggage. I’m a single childless man. I want to be with a single childless woman. I’m not raising another man’s kid. The family courts are in their favor, thanks to the scumbag lawyers. And thanks to no-fault divorce, a woman can divorce, take half a guys stuff & kids in a snap & for no reason. In my country (USA), 50% of marriages end in divorce & 70% of divorces are initiated by women. With all the risks I listed, what guy in his rightful mind would want to married?
True marriage is suppose to be between a man, woman, & G-d. The State shouldn’t even be involved! Men are actually doing themselves a favor by avoiding marriage due to it’s low rewards & high penalties. The Left has really screwed us all.
I hate Feminism
I have ZERO sympathy for the women who sleep around with the “bad boys”, & then expect the “nice guys” to forget it all. Forget it ladies! Nice guys everywhere are starting to catch on to your little games & deciding not to play. So forget about getting married, forget about having kids, & forget about being financially secured. Have fun living in the poor side of town in the your 1-bedroom apartment & with your pet cats.
Anon,
Two later posts discuss exactly that! You might find them of interest.
While the reasons it does not work for “men” seem to smoke out the reasons for “women” is frustrating.
Let’s not forget when it comes to men and porn and availability of sex from so many sources over investing in one woman, there are women on the other end of that playing the roles. For everyman that has a porn issue there is mounds of woman feeding it. For every man that strays, there is a woman to stray to.
For the older generation (folks now 45 and older) where is had some chance and began before the age of technology.. I mean it was an embarrassment and you had to go out of your way to get a Playboy or rent of dirty video…along comes all life’s challenges and the new age escape. So marriages otherwise okay turn to dust and die a slow painful costly death.
On top of that, because males today are not taking on the husband and father roles at ages 24-35 ish, no real jobs, stability, class etc… to offer a union, woman in this bracket are seeking out older men. Those older men are being yanked out of unions.
So the younger generation has led to the destruction of the generation that at one time stood a chance.
And yes, today… me at 50 being left for a girl of 25 years his jr. and porn and married hookup sites has left me with no need for a man at all. He has all that so no need for one boring old same old same old to invest in. Woman my age are being slaughtered and left in ruins by the millions world wide. But I do not forget there is a woman on the other side promoting it.
Funny thing is, that girl he left for will be my age widowed or caring for a very old creepy man.
But I don’t think marriage before this new wave of narcissism was much better for more than half anyways. I see, today, marriages of 40 plus years that ended by death of another “girl” the woman is realizing there was not much of a loss anyway.
When people are shitty, any relationship they have will be.
As far as educated people, they are just better at covering up their smut.
Jackie,
I see your first comment was caught in the spam filter. It’s workings are mysterious! I would have pulled it out manually, but you successfully reposted it. Thank you for your comment!
Well with the very horrible pathetic women that are everywhere nowadays, good luck for many of us men trying to meet a real Normal One today.
“Lisa”
Here is a trope for you….Women’s insufferable, perpetual lack of responsibility and state of denial. Your first paragraph is MORONIC. Rich men, are LEADING the charge to not get married.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfle5WBbhBM&t=22s Watch, listen and weep ladies. The trend is taking hold with your Christian Grays. LULZ. Ya stupid.
“Now, men doing a Galt, is laughable. It is women that are no longer prepared to sacrifice their lives for a ‘boy’.” Shaming language. “Women” = real people boy = sub-human. Misandrist demeaning aggressive hate speech.
“Lower class people”? Elitist much? Need I say more? Nothing like a swanky liberal telling everyone how low class they are.
“Being more independent and self sufficient than males, most women would rather be on their own than put up with that nonsense. And they do increasingly.” Women are far less independent than men. If it we not for the state backing women up on EVERYTHING they do, men would beat them at everything. Women actually count STATE assistance as being “independent”. Woman’s logic folks. If it weren’t for quotas and hiring laws, so many women would not get hired. Next part….men do far far far better on their own than women. Men are actually happier, have less debt, more freedom etc…..women on the other hand are suffering their greatest depression in recorded human history. Women are MORE unhappy now, than EVER. Women are slowly realizing that they are now doomed to work their entire lives with OTHER women. There is NO escape. And they are utterly miserable.
Lisa…your next paragraph was an utter fiasco. “Sexual urges”? Is this some lame nod to “rape culture”? Which is the lamest trope to flop out of the feminist’s mouth yet. Who gives a crap what grandpappy did. I can tell you this, he didn’t have to listen to a woman like you. And don’t worry about our evil sexual urges….trust me love….you aren’t that special and the sex robots are on their way. So, please feel safe in the knowledge that NO man will even be looking at you, let alone craving that vajayjay.
The next paragraph is a made up story. Total lie. Just feminist propaganda.
“What is wrong with them and they way they have been brought up?” More misandrist attacks on young boys. This is almost looking sadistically pedophilic. Sort of like a female’s version of sodomy. Emotional sodomy of little boys…It’s pretty sick. Feminists are emotional sodomites of young boys.
“So the problem is not females they are just walking away from this, even though they want, desperately, a good partnership with a man. The problem is boys not growing up…… filled with prejudice and anger and hatred. That treat women like a piece of meat and a domestic slave…..”
Here is the real problem…women have done nothing but bash men and boys going on 50 years now…they’ve gotten all they demanded and now they want men and boys to suffer. So the young men and boys are leaving. And now these same wicked, nasty women are desperately trying to convince everyone that women are somehow naturally born with a higher value, higher moral quality and higher social perception of reality…when the truth is…women are crass, greedy consumers who see men as utility objects, dehumanized for the purpose of leeching off them without the worry of guilt or remorse, always confident that the gynocentric culture, of feminists, traditional woman and their mangina simps will back them up, always agreeing that women are pure angels, forever the victim of aggressive men who know only two emotions….HATE and RAPE. This is pure sociopaths thinking. This feminist’s biggest fear, is being EXPOSED for the fraud she and all women are.
“Despite all the MRA propaganda, those males who treat female like equals, that work together in a partnership…well they have no problems finding and keeping relationships…Probably great sex lives too….lol.” PURE CONJECTURE wrapped in shaming language. Marriage is an institution of the patriarchy. Marriage is where a man own’s a woman and confines her and oppresses her agency. Right???
Solution…end marriage. STOP getting on one knee for that makes the man less than equal. Stop handing over an engagement ring. This is also UNEQUAL. The man is transferring wealth to the woman. The ring also represents a pledge of future transfers of wealth. Marriage is an institution in which women covertly extract resources from men and call it “equality”. Women take, men provide. This is equality for women. The only way women and men can be free is if they do NOT marry. Even if men and women could be equal in a marriage, women can divorce men and the state will enslave the man to women, and will take the majority of HIS assets even if she is working, plus it will give her the kids. This is equality to a woman. Lovely lovely equality. Women like Lisa cannot understand the truth of her “equality”. Her equality is the equality of the victim. It is getting equal…not by being equal…but through REVENGE.
“Hey I am trangender I lived amongst you ‘men’ for decades I know all your secrets. I know how you think and act……. I know what what you tell other ‘men’ when you get drunk.”
This is total BS. Men NEVER talk about sex with other men. NO MAN…and I mean NO man have EVER discussed his partners genitals to his bros. But women on the other hand….can’t seem to STOP talking about men’s penises. Women are emotional toddlers. And as for violence, all the criminal stats PROVE that women abuse and kill children more..are likely to strike their partners FIRST, are likely to use covert means of domination and control, threaten, bully and emotionally intimidate. The list goes on and on. And in fact, lesbians have a higher rate of domestic violence than straight couples. All of this can be confirmed.
“What about your wives? Did you ever appreciate that they threw their lives away and all their hopes and dreams and talents…just to make you feel better…and the bitterness so many of them feel now because of it.”
List of things military wive HATE and find oppressive: free housing, world travel, guaranteed pension and death benefits, a tight military family culture, education incentives and legacy enrollment for their children in the academies. YUP…women get nothing. You got it. Ohhh, and don’t forget about the prestige of being married to a military man. Ohhh, and they can all still go to college and work. Almost forgot about that….and they can even vote too. Wow. Women gave up EVERYTHING for all that security which they don’t get. And what planet are you from tranny?
How your post is allowed to be up is beyond me. Just the same old garbage out of the feminist playbook. Nobody’s buying it anymore. Ohhh just so you know…in Britain, white boys are now the lowest scoring students and lowest percent to go to university. And the reason is…..they HATE everything and everybody….it’s pure white boy hate. Clearly they refuse to grow up. I’m sure they were just born evil…right?
It’s not like these used to be the scholars and explorers the rest of the world looked to or anything…nope just pure hate and evil. That is why they won’t grow up. It isn’t the society of people like YOU who are filled with hate oppressing them every waking second? Nah…that would be impossible…clearly ONLY YOU can be a victim of emotional tyranny. Cause vagina and stuff.
Nat Aki:
It is so funny you say women will be miserable working with OTHER women. That is 100% true. When my wife was still alive, she was a Paralegal working law offices and the support staff was 90% female. She lived in hell and only did this major sacrifice because I was in law school at the time.
My Mom is a Vet and she hates working for female Vet clinic owners. She turned down a big-paying job at Benfield clinic because her boss was female. She worked for less pay at a smaller clinic, but was happy due to a good male owner/boss.
Women are worst bosses ever. They make life for EVERYONE a living hell. And men get falsely accused of sexual harassment the moment you make her upset.
Women know other women very well and they hate each other. That should tell you a lot! lol
ChristianCool
Ps. Marriage has become the worst deal ever. I am one of the 30% or 40% of men who managed to keep a marriage after 12 years and honestly, I was happier then s#it. But now widower, there is ZERO CHANCE I will re-marry. The risk-benefit is too great.
I was considering marrying an Ukrainian girl I was smitten by last year, but I gave up on idea. I still ache for that Ukrainian, feminine, pretty, sweet, good cook… but she has a 10-year old boy (she was married age 17, and got pregnant age 18 and husband flaked out on her and her child). BTW, no man or woman should have a child before being married at least 2 years. You need TIME to work on marriage and develop the needed bond to keep marriage for life (or as long as you can – my record was 12 years). lol
The problem is that I would have to MARRY the Ukrainian to bring her into USA, and again, I am facing all risks in marriage. She got nothing to lose…. and worse, because I am improving her condition of life, she will become “accustomed to” a much higher lifestyle and in a divorce, that worsts against me!!! :-o And even worse, if I help raise her son (any support, even if NOT adopting him legally, which I would never do), I can be forced to pay child support for “acting like a father”!!! >_< That is even if I have a prenup, the Family Law judge (the "Emperor in Black Robes") can order the Prenup tossed out, give her 50%+ of my assets, and make me pay alimony and child support. I help raise someone out of poverty and my reward is to suffer. No way, man.
Ps2. It saddens me greatly that marriage is going to have to end and die out so system can be reset. There is NO WAY, any sane man would marry anymore given how bad it has become!
“The solution is simple: Be strong. There are many good women out there, one for every good man.””
I respectfully disagree, sir. Some points of evidence:
1) The frivorce ratio, easily 5:1 women:men.
2) The rarity that women in the West reject any of the core attributes of feminism, let alone its benefits (i.e., voting rights for women without earning it by subjection to conscription, unequal treatment in divorce & criminal court, affirmative action in academia & the workplace, sexual harassment laws, near total lack of felony perjury convictions for false rape accusations, gross disparity in medical research/social spending/homelessness/workplace deaths of ~18:1, lack of concern for paternity fraud and restitution when discovered, etc.)
3) The frequency of abortion in the U.S.
4) The rarity with which women will risk their lives to protect their spouses/boyfriends, when the reverse is common.
5) Ecclesiastes 7:28 ‘ “I do know there is one good man in a thousand, but never have I found a good woman.”
Luke,
Many young men agree with you about the first three on your list. Especially about the risk-rewards of marriage!
The other problem with my advice: how do young men identify a “good” young women. In 1960 a guy could marry an average pleasant pretty young woman with reasonable odds of it working out for both of them. Now we expect young men to be Freuds, determining how a young women’s beliefs and values will change over the decades — with big penalties if he gets it wrong.
So my advice of three years ago looks pretty bad today. Hence the scores of posts since then, including the current series, attempting to better understand the situation and develop better responses.
“So my advice of three years ago looks pretty bad today. Hence the scores of posts since then, including the current series, attempting to better understand the situation and develop better responses.”
There is no better response there is only the facts. People like you read books, look at statics and put up web pages to try and get the answers in text. It won’t work. TALKING to men who are OLDER have all the answers.
Sam,
“There is no better response there is only the facts.”
I disagree. The process of seeing the world and responding has phases: observation, orientation, decision, and action. Discerning facts is a complex process. Applying values to them is equally important, because context is everything when looking at social interactions. Also, these posts seek to provide advice — not just analysis. That goes far beyond facts.
“TALKING to men who are OLDER have all the answers.
I don’t know what that means. I’m in my 60s, and find that much of my understanding of these things comes from talking to Boy Scouts I lead — who are now in their 20s. They are the ones on the front lines.