Summary: The most difficult problems for a society are those that we cannot bring ourselves to discuss. For America, that’s the high crime rate of African-Americans. We either ignore it or respond with police and prisons, different ways to close our eyes. We have tried both “solutions”; both have failed. At some point we have to begin dealing with our problems, or they will accumulate and gang up on us.
“Crime and bad lives are the measure of a State’s failure, all crime in the end is the crime of the community.”
— From H. G. Wells’ A Modern Utopia(1905).
(1905).The unspeakable problem.
Breitbart is not the kind of news service I rely on, but occasionally even a blind squirrel finds a nut, as in this Nov 2015 story by Jerome Hudson: “5 Devastating Facts About Black-on-Black Crime“.
“In 2012, white males were 38% of the population and committed 4,582 murders. That same year, black males were just 6.6% of the population but committed a staggering 5,531 murders. In other words: black people -– at just a fifth of the size — committed almost 1,000 more murders than their white counterparts.
“The figures above highlight a horrific truth that black racialists and white liberals routinely ignore: Lawbreaking black Americans, young black males particularly, put themselves in close proximity to (mostly white male) police officers at rates sometimes five to 10 times higher than whites.
“…There have been almost as many deaths in one American city as there have been in the two major wars carried out by the U.S. military this century. Chicago’s death toll from 2001 – November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.”
See more disturbing evidence at “Guns and race: The different worlds of black and white Americans” by Richard V. Reeves and Sarah Holmes of Brookings, December 2015. The bottom line…
Even the major news media occasionally report these sad numbers, such as in “Race and Homicide in America, by the Numbers” by Matthew Cella and Alan Neuhauser in US News and World Report, September 2016 — “New federal statistics have some interesting things to say about interracial killings and ‘black-on-black’ homicides.”
Conclusions
“The central conservative truth is that it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society. The central liberal truth is that politics can change a culture and save it from itself.”
— Daniel Patrick Moynihan in Family and Nation— The 1985 Godkin Lectures at Harvard University.
— The 1985 Godkin Lectures at Harvard University.Centuries of racism — baked into America’s soul at the beginning — have put African-Americans in a difficult situation. But their actions do not seem to be helping. Their incredible crime rates — with them the worst-affected, rotting their communities — which they mostly ignore. Instead there are Black Live Matter protests about police’s street execution of long-time criminals and demands that today’s Americans pay reparations to descendants of slaves (although many American’s didn’t even have descendents in America before the Civil War). These show odd priorities, unlikely to prove effective in any meaningful sense.
This contributes to another problem: decades of progress after WWII is being washing away, as the tide of racism rises again. I have no ideas about ways to stop this complex ball of problems. I have not seen any ideas that look promising. It is a rot that should be near the top of America’s list of priorities, but I doubt a majority of Americans agree with that.
My guess — emphasis on guess — is that addressing urban crime levels is the most promising first step. The rest of America can help, but the initiative must start in the communities of our inner cities.
For More information
It is important to understand what life is like for those living with America’s history of racism, baked as it was into America at the start. For example, see “What It’s Like to Be Black in the Criminal Justice System” by Andrew Kahn and Chris Kirk at Slate, August 2015 — “These eight charts suggest there are racial disparities at every phase of the justice system.”
If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. See all posts about racism, about police violence, and especially these…
- Congress did a great thing 50 years ago, but rot from that day has spread and taken root.
- Hard data from Harvard about police violence & race.
- Racism is the dark side of populism. Will it divide and defeat us?
- Donald Trump leads us back to the future, to the dark days of US history.
- Trump and the 1% lead America back to its past, to its dark roots.
- Warning: the income gap between races is widening in America.
- On Martin Luther King Jr. Day, let the GOP remember its great betrayal.
At least these charts seem to suggest that the murder rate is chronic (perhaps even declining somewhat more than apparent, if the population has been going up significantly).
I’d never seen the gun deaths figure, but it would explain why I have noticed a much higher level of desire for gun control laws among African-American politicians and commenters I’ve read. No (or far fewer) warm cultural memories THERE.
Dana,
Your use of a medical analogy seems apt. The rate of violence by young Black males is slowly falling, but seems chronic. The problem with a chronic disease is that it can erode away the health, even vitality, of the overall organism. I wonder about the broader indications of social health for African-American communities; I’m sure there are reports about this.
Also interesting would be a comparison of today’s indicators with those of 1965 — when Daniel Patrick Moynihan (sociologist and politician) wrote “The Negro Family: The Case For National Action” (see Wikipedia). America disregarded his advice; the comparison would suggest the effects of that choice.
FM wrote “Centuries of racism — backed into America’s soul at the beginning”
I think he meant “Centuries of racism — baked into America’s soul at the beginning”
Pluto,
Thanks for catching that. Fixed! Sadly, when our software becomes smart enough to catch such errors it probably will be able to write such articles by itself.
Let’s treat this social symptom the way our medical system treats medical symptoms: suppress it. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Godfree,
“Let’s treat this social symptom the way our medical system treats medical symptoms: suppress it.”
Suppress has two meanings: “restrain” or “forcibly put an end to”. Sometimes doctors can cure illnesses, so they “restrain” the symptoms — which is better than doing nothing. Sometimes they cure illnesses using drugs, surgery, or other means — which “forcibly puts an end to” to the cause (and therefore the symptoms). That’s OK too.
“Yeah, that’s the ticket.”
What would you prefer doctors to do?
Crime is the result of an ignored problem and the problem in this case is unmitigated poverty, gentrification, homelessness and drug addiction. I live in one of the cities that has been designated a high crime city with a yearly murder rate of over 300.
You go to Breitbart, one of the most right-leaning websites to post your statistics and then try and pretend that you’ve reported on this issue, unbiased when you have not. I can cite statistics from a website that will counter yours and then you can likewise find another website similar to Breitbart to attempt to refute my statistics, meanwhile what does this do for the problem of crime, period? And it is the whites who are always clamoring for lax gun laws and who are shooting each other even at the gun range and who are also the number one killers of each other while cleaning guns or keeping their guns in reach of young children.
Let’s take a look at something.
5 Facts That Shatter the Myth of ‘Black-on-Black’ Crime
Here are 5 facts that prove white-on-white crime is actually the real problem, and that anyone trying to make “black-on-black crime” a major issue is just a racist looking for positive reinforcement of their prejudiced worldview.
1. 84 percent of white murder victims were white
2. Whites kill more whites than black people kill each other
In 2011, the most recent year for which data is available, 2,630 white people killed 3,172 white people, according to FBI homicide statistics. When comparing that to the black population, in which 2,447 African-Americans murdered 2,695 of their own, white-on-white murder is clearly the bigger issue.
. White people commit more crimes than any other race
4. White people kill more members of vulnerable populations than any other race
5. Gang murders are most common among white gangs
While a lot of attention has been given to the gang-related homicides in Chicago’s predominantly-black South side, very little press has been devoted to covering the epidemic of white-on-white gangland murders. As the above chart demonstrates, the majority of gang-related homicides are committed by white people (53.3 percent white, 42.2 percent black), and the majority of white gang murder victims are also white (56.5 percent white, 40 percent black). Have this fact handy the next time someone bemoans “black-on-black” gang violence.
source: http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/black-on-black-crime/
——————————————————
Yeah, so have these figures handy the next time you want to mouth off about ‘America’s unspeakable problem….’
You conveniently neglect to mention how violent whites are but their crime statistics are not reported because of who controls the reporting and because the agenda is to make Black people out to be the worst folks breathing while whites always get a free pass. Not on my watch, you don’t! Whites are killing whites, and how, but you didn’t bother to go on and on about that because that’s not something that anyone wants bandied about because let us just focus on the REAL BAD BLACK FOLKS killing each other. I will certainly be blogging about this post, count on it!
Shelby,
(1) “the problem in this case is unmitigated poverty, gentrification, homelessness and drug addiction.”
All of those factors are real. But African-Americans have far higher crime rates than other races even controlling for that.
(2) “pretend that you’ve reported on this issue, unbiased ”
No, I said exctly the opposite.
(3) ” I can cite statistics from a website that will counter yours and then you”
I look forward to you doing so. I doubt that you can. The numbers you cite ignore the point shown here. We’re talking about rates of violence. Numbers of crimes per thousand, or relative rates of crime between races. You are looking at absolute numbers, which tell us only that African-Americans are only a tenth of the population. Violent crime rates are what matter inside a community, not the aggregate number of crimes in the nation.
(4) “Gang murders are most common among white gangs”
We’re looking at overall violent crime rates. Parsing those into the many specific kinds of violent crimes is irrelevant to the large point made here, although it is important when taking specific public policy actions to address crime.
wow, you’re honestly so pathetic and hypocritical. YOU are obviously looking at sites that lean so far left it’s not even funny. Before you go slashing others ACTUAL facts, go open a book or real reports, instead of watching CNN.
…and you need to stop perpetrating the fraud that you’re Black. Like hell you are!
Shelby,
No personal attacks, please. They don’t accomplish anything and they violate this website’s comment policy.
I was attacked, but then that’s of no consequence seeing as how I was already at odds over this particular article. I only responded to a comment that was directed at me. I have long since stopped following this blog, but a comment showed up on my tracker. So, consider me done with the ‘pretender’ that attacked me and with your blog!
Shelby,
“I was attacked, but then that’s of no consequence”
Yes you were, and that is of concern to me. I warned Conservative not to do so again. Repeat offenders have their comments moderated, with personal attacks deleted.
“as how I was already at odds over this particular article.”
But you have posted no cogent rebuttal. Instead you posted comments which were blatantly false, and ignored the quotes I gave in reply showing that.
“consider me done with the ‘pretender’ that attacked me and with your blog!”
Perhaps that is just as well. Your style of discourse appears stuck at “RANT”, with no listening to replies. It’s not what we do here.
Conservative,
The problem with rants is that communicate nothing. And in your rage you get simple facts wrong.
“YOU are obviously looking at sites that lean so far left it’s not even funny.”
This post cites many sources, including the far-right Breitbart.
“instead of watching CNN.”
CNN is not one of the dozens of sources mentioned here.
In denial much? The MSM (vastly Liberal) constantly harangues whites over the “state” of black America, while tacitly ignoring the faults of blacks. Since the MSM is in bed with the Democrat Party, they will never run statistics showing the the rate of black on white rape is astronomical compared to the reverse. They will never admit that blacks kill significantly more whites than the reverse. How many know that blacks are 20% of all serial killers in this country? I’m SICK and TIRED of the one sided, hypocritical, “narrative” pushed by the MSM/Democrat Party Left wing.
Bullshit!
Shelby,
You can give schoolyard insults to your heart’s content. It neither changes the facts nor helps us move to a solution.
I did try and post facts but the comment was never posted. Check your spam folder.
Shelby,
Thanks for flagging that! It’s been posted.
Spam software runs automatically and is imperfect. But comment sections can’t run without it. It intercepts 70-100 spams per day.
The topic is certainly difficult to discuss in positive or constructive ways. I do not disagree with the statistics but they do not help to define the issues in ways that help to either define the issues or point to solutions. I see race as being too broad a variable to explain what are sadly too frequent but essentially rare individual actions. Unless you believe that African Americans are more predisposed to violence and crime than non-African Americans, the framing of this issue is not helpful. In addition, obviously how you present the statistics makes a big difference. Present the data in an aggregate form (as opposed to per 100,000) and there is little difference between the groups defined by race and gender. If you note the huge disparity between crime and murder rates among cities within the same “identity” groups then clearly important other things are going on.
The roots of crime and violence are pretty well known, but we keep talking about it in ways that seem to me to be at best irrelevant and at worse counter-productive.
It would be interesting to see the crime and murder rates by the following parameters:
Individuals who grow up with both parents vs those without a father vs with no parent
Individuals who attended school regularly through 16 vs those who were chronically absent
Individuals who grew up in families above and below the poverty level
Individuals who grew up in families with and without substance abuse
Individuals who served in the military and those who did not
Individuals who grew up with and without strong religious/ethical norms
Individuals who support their children and those who provide no support
Individuals who see police and the legal system as a source of help vs who see the police and legal system as corrupt and malevolent
Individuals who … (you get the picture)
Clearly “racial identity” has some explanatory value but it is unclear how it helps to explain and address the issue.
See Herbert Blumer’s oldie but goodie: “Sociological Analysis and the ‘Variable’” in the American Sociological Review, Dec 1956.
Bernie,
Perhaps you are correct. But we have to work with the perspectives we have. And I doubt there is another useful perspective to be found, given the vast amount of study about these issues by social scientists during the past 50 years. It looks to me like you are just wishing, rather than dealing with these matters. That doesn’t help.
As for your list of other factors, these numbers have been crunched countless times. Race is so powerful a factor, it dominates almost all other variables.
“Clearly “racial identity” has some explanatory value”
That’s an understatement so massive it’s almost wrong.
“but it is unclear how it helps to explain and address the issue.”
That’s a misunderstanding. Number don’t explain social science questions. Numbers don’t tell us how to address social issues.
“I look forward to you doing so. I doubt that you can. The numbers you cite ignore the point shown here. We’re talking about rates of violence. Numbers of crimes per thousand, or relative rates of crime between races. You are looking at absolute numbers, which tell us only that African-Americans are only a tenth of the population. Violent crime rates are what matter inside a community, not the aggregate number of crimes in the nation.”
I knew you would decide that what I had posted was irrelevant but regardless of what you say, it is and Bernie was right, one must factor in all the variables because they make up the equation and you seem hell bent on deciding that where you got your statistics IS the only viable source and everyone else is just ‘making stuff up’ or their point is irrelevant. Again, I will be posting about this on my blog and I expect quite the discussion resulting from it.
SHelby,
“I knew you would decide that what I had posted was irrelevant but regardless of what you say, it is”
I explained my reasoning. Can you explain otherwise?
“and Bernie was right”
What did he say that was relevant to this? I don’t recall anything, from memory.
“one must factor in all the variables because they make up the equation”
That’s beyond my resources, or yours. It’s beyond anyone’s ability to do in a few thousand words. Books have been written about this subject. I was making one simple point, not attempting the definitive analysis — let alone explanation.
“and you seem hell bent on deciding that where you got your statistics IS the only viable source”
I said nothing remotely like that.
“and everyone else is just ‘making stuff up’”
I said nothing remotely like that. I respond to direct quotes to avoid responses like that. I suggest you try doing so.
“or their point is irrelevant.”
As above, I gave my reasons. If you have a rebuttal, please tell us.
“I will be posting about this on my blog”
Perhaps that’s for the best. You appear unable to support your statements, or accept any critique of them.
But what is most stunning of all is the fact that you neglect to mention the crime that is the reason why you are even discussing ‘AFRICAN-Americans’ being in this country. I guess that ‘crime’ is on us also! For the love of !!!!!!
Shelby,
“you neglect to mention the crime that is the reason why you are even discussing ‘AFRICAN-Americans’ being in this country.”
That statement is not only false, but quite astonishingly so.
(1) Slavery was not a “crime” in any meaningful sense when slaves were forced to come to America. Slavery is almost omnipresent in human history throughout the world. The slow evolution of morality to declare it immoral and then illegal is one of the great accomplishments of humanity. Of course, slavery still exists in some areas (e.g., East Africa). And conditions of near-slavery exist in wider areas (e.g., some parts of Pakistan). Progress still needed.
(2) The first words of the Conclusion contradict your claim.
(3) More broadly, I put crime rates of African Americans in their proper context as a pathology of American society. I suspect you agree with these quotes, but prefer to close your eyes to what I said. The first is the opening of the post; the second introduces the Conclusions section.
The best source of actual data for this, that I’ve found, is the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting (aggregated from individual national and local law enforcement agencies), particularly Table 43A, Arrests by Race and Ethnicity (here’s the version from 2015).
A while back I spent some time browsing their data, in an attempt to debunk some claims similar to those on Breitbart. Instead, what I found was shocking, particularly if you compare the percentages there with the demographic distributions. African Americans are arrested for violent crimes at extremely high rates compared to other groups (about twice their representation in the population) and Asian Americans as a group hardly at all (~1/4 of expectation given their population). Another astounding fact, that I have never heard discussed, is that African Americans are not just a plurality in certain categories, but an absolute majority, particularly for the serious crimes of Murder/manslaughter and Robbery. That’s approximately 4-fold higher than expected.
Now, perhaps cops are so racist that they arrest blacks at much higher rates (certainly arrests are an imperfect proxy for commission of crimes, but they’re the best we’re likely to do on a large scale), that’s certainly plausible, but even accounting for any reasonable effect size in that regard this enrichment is dramatic.
As for causes and remedies, I’m at as much of a loss as anyone else, but it certainly does not bode well for our prospects of racial harmony in the near future. Furthermore, from the discussions I’ve observed, these unspoken discrepancies are a huge hidden subtext in the gun-control debate (on the pro-gun side, at least, I’m pretty sure they’re unknown to most anti-gun folks because they’re politically uncomfortable), helping to prevent any realistic chance of compromise in that policy arena. I suppose one immediate policy move that would be expected to reduce crimes across all ethnic groups would be ending the War on Drugs (really a war on people, since you can’t fight inanimate objects, but OK) but I doubt would be a complete solution.
Phageghost,
The initial version of this post was presenting data from the FBI crime stats. But it was too much work to present. Also, everybody knows all this. It’s stating obvious things that we prefer not to see.
Good on you to be willing to go to the source and put in the time to understand at least a part of the problem. The same to FM Editor. This topic is painful to discuss with a general audience, since not only is “racism” baked in — so is facile denial.
US Prison populations reveal an ethnic proportionality — consistently — which is difficult to deny. When one claims that US whites commit most crimes, the obvious conclusion one must draw is that they get away with crime at unbelievable rates, since they are not in prison in any proportion which supports that assertion.
What concerns most people is not when acquaintances kill, maim, or assault each other. That is human nature. What concerns most people is when complete strangers kill, maim, or assault each other, because that is unpredictable and occurs seemingly “out of the blue.” It is more difficult to explain. Violent carjackings, violent home invasions, violent muggings, rapes, entrapment crimes on food delivery persons, etc. These crimes destroy the fabric of trust that holds civilisations together.
This is why “black on white” violent crime seems more alarming than “black on black” or “white on white” crimes.
The question of “innateness of crime” has come up in this discussion. This is another topic that is “not politically correct,” and painful to discuss in public. But the information is there to be found in the scientific literature, if one takes the time — as FM Editor and phageghost have done with crime statistics.
alfin,
“What concerns most people is not when acquaintances kill, maim, or assault each other. That is human nature. What concerns most people is when complete strangers kill, maim, or assault each other, because that is unpredictable and occurs seemingly “out of the blue.” It is more difficult to explain.”
My impression — not based on research, personal experience or expert knowledge — is different. I see the core problem as high rates of violence in the Black American community. Some of that is a high rate of domestic violence. Some of that is acquaintance violence — among clan, neighbors, school fellows (some of this is gang-related). It erodes both the family and community systems that provides the scaffolding on which people build their lives.
Editor:
Did you read the Blumer article? It is over 50 years old but is still immensely relevant.
The problem is that while you are correct that we use the parameters that we are given, that does not mean that they are either correct or helpful. They are simply convenient.
If we lived in an ethnically homogeneous community, what parameters might we use for summarizing crime statistics?
I have the same issues with crime statistics as I do with statistics on ethnic differences in IQ scores. Using the gross demographic categories as some kind of pseudo explanation creates non-discussable topics and generates reactions like Shelby’s.
This is a well worn and largely ongoing debate in sociology. We have descriptive categories and explanatory variables. We should avoid confusing the two.
Shelby’s response is to my mind a natural consequence of excessive levels of identity politics. I actually don’t think that this criticism of confusing demographic categories with explanatory variables is either “wishful thinking” or “tilting at windmills”. I see such variables as equivalent to the 18th century notion of “ether” and the 17th century notion of Phlogiston. Both in time reflected our ignorance not our understanding.
Bernie,
I have no idea what you are attempting to say. You appear to be saying other variables have stronger correlations with crime and social dysfunction — but present zero evidence (because I doubt there is any).
I think the confusion results from a misunderstanding of the term “explanatory variable.” This is a term of that has a narrow technical meaning for regression models, but like many such terms it should not be confused with the ordinary usage of the word “explain” which it overlaps. Saying that a variable “explains” some fraction of the variance in the data in no way implies a causal relationship, in this case that being a member of an ethnic group “causes” one to commit or not commit crimes. Basically it just means that there is a correlation and the old saw that “correlation does not equal causation” is certainly worth heeding.
But what correlation does do is raise a flag that something is going on that might be worth looking into further, to construct more sophisticated models that tease apart the relationships between variables and account for things like spurious confounding variables that may be giving rise to the correlation. Ideally one would incorporate more fine-grained variables to try to better get at the problem, but since these are not provided by the big government data collection efforts, they’re not as easy to come by.
In general, mathematical modeling can be viewed as a continuum between mechanistic models that try to fit data using causative relationships, often derived from first principles, on the one hand, and phenomenological models that use observed relationships between high-level features of the data without trying to assign causation. Human beings and their relationships are so incredibly complex that sociology must, of necessity, be restricted to the latter end of the spectrum. When it comes to mechanism we’re left with (possibly very informed and useful) speculation, but we have left the realm of the quantitative at that point.
I’m sure Japan and other nearly homogeneous societies can offer pointers on how to summarize crime statistics.
Dear Fabius Maximus and all,
There is a germane article over at FiveThiryEight called Gun Deaths in America that interactively breaks down who shoots. The largest group is white men shooting themselves, which begs that “gun control” measures probably shouldn’t be one dimensional, or limited merely to restricting access to guns. All of the numbers are tragic, but the African-American deaths are shocking.
There are two themes, mainly held on the left, which lie in conflict, the first we don’t need “get tough” law enforcement policies because crime rates are at their lowest in decades and the second we need to lock down access to guns because crime is so terrible. On the first, at least some in the law enforcement community agree [NYT]. However, I don’t think that both positions are held simultaneously. And, they’re not wrong, just weird in context.
Crime is down, especially in big cities, but much of that is attributable to gentrification, for lack of a better word. Anyone remember Times Square back in the 70s? Rudi’s stop-and-frisk was far less effective in reducing crime than skyrocketing housing costs, IMO.
However, this concentrates crime in pockets where the rates are high. Policing is exasperated by breakdown of the social contract between police and policed in such areas, IMO (cf John McWhorter’s WaPo article). Crime really is a problem, but it’s due to a lot of different factors including enforcement and lack thereof and punishment.
Bill,
“Crime really is a problem, but it’s due to a lot of different factors including enforcement and lack thereof and punishment.”
Enforcement is a small factor affecting crime rates (in America). There is a massive body of research on this.
“this concentrates crime in pockets where the rates are high. Policing is exasperated by breakdown of the social contract between police and policed in such areas”
I agree. That was what I said in my first post when this issue erupted into public view. The defensive reaction of police to police violence — refusing to implement even obviously necessary reforms (e.g., a national database of police officers and their records, like many professions have).
Colleges and Universities are now scrambling due to attract students due to the “birth dearth” in America. While it is only one variable amongst many, less children equals less crime.
Slavery and dispossession were “baked in”, not racism, which developed as a justificatory system for both. Which is good news, as it can also dwindle, as it clearly has.
Lorenzo,
“”Slavery and dispossession were “baked in”, not racism, which developed as a justificatory system for both. ”
That’s wrong in two ways. First, it implies that slavery in America preceded racism, and that racism developed after slavery. This is not correct. Columbus considered the natives he met as animals, and enslaved them almost immediately. The former enabled the latter. That is, he treated them differently than he did his fellow Europeans (even those of hostile nations).
Second, “baked in to our soul” is a metaphor. I meant it to refer to something deeply embedded in America, and hence enduring — unlike slavery — in America.
Racism is not required for slavery. And “civilised” folk viewing non-civilised as “animals” or “savages” has a long history. Our obsession with racism leads us to over-project it backwards.
Lorenzo,
“Racism is not required for slavery.”
To what is that a rebuttal? That is, what here makes such a statement? Replying to direct quotes helps.
“Slave” is derived in some form from slav, since in Medieval Europe Slavs were enslaved. But racism was a major force in the subject discussed here — American slavery.
You pointed to Columbus enslaving locals as evidence of racism. No racism is required for slavery to happen is clearly a response to that. Nor is racism needed for the language of “uncivilised” people being “animals”. Romans and Greeks used lots of slaves, and did it without developing the language of racism. Racism became established in the colonial Americas early because slavery posed a problem to the universal moral system of Christianity, so the justification of racism was “needed” more intensively and earlier. Earlier still, Spanish and North African Islam developed a racist anti-black discourse for much the same reasons. http://lorenzo-thinkingoutaloud.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/the-race-delusion-in-american-politics.html
Lorenzo,
I agreed with you that racism was not necessary for slavery, so I don’t see why you repeated all that.
You believe that racism was not a factor — or a large factor — in Europe’s slavery in the New World. I would like to see some experts supporting your view about that. I’ve not studied this in depth, but what I’ve seen says otherwise.
phageghost:
I agree. If we want to address an issue we need causal variables. Demographic variables tend to be problematic causal variable – though, as you say, they might narrow the search domain for significant and meaningful causal variables. By problematic, I mean that their headlining of any analysis can be a major distraction to the analysis. In regression models, the inclusion of a demographic variable that is correlated with the dependent variable but is not causal will essentially mask the importance of other causal variables that are also correlated with that same demographic variable.
The relevant point for this post, though, is not the technical modelling point, but the implicit messaging which is exactly what, IMHO, Shelby reacted so strongly to. The statistics presented are undoubtedly accurate and Editor’s point on the non-discussable nature of crime and murder rates is valid but needs broadening.
bernie,
“If we want to address an issue we need causal variables.”
You write as if the massive body of research about this — done over decades — doesn’t exist. People focus on race because it has proven to be one of the key variable. You can wish all you want, but that won’t change the numbers.
“Editor’s point on the non-discussable nature of crime and murder rates is valid but needs broadening.”
Got to be the most generic, most often used, and most useless of the responses I’ve seen in the 50 thousand-plus reactions in these comments. Every analysis can be “broadened”. Every analysis can be said to need “broadening”. Long books have been written about this, and they too are often said to need “broadening”.
This is a thousand word post about one key aspect of this situation. It is not, and does not purport to be, a representation of the Cosmic All.
My generic response is “let’s you see write a few thousand words that summarizes this situation — that doesn’t need ‘broadening’.” Good luck with that.
We are all afraid to get too specific in discussing this topic. It is a political hot button that can burn up the finger all the way to the heart and brain. The easiest thing to do is ignore the issue. But if one is willing to brave the PC Police, Berkeley riots, and the pepper spraying of the innocent, there is a lot of well-supported information on race and crime, penetrating all the way down to the genetic levels. We are all afraid to dive into that sort of thing, however.
“Is crime genetic? Scientists don’t know because they’re afraid to ask“, Boston Globe, 6 March 2016.
The article above is written by one of the pioneering researchers in the field, and contains links to a number of studies pertinent to the issue. It is written to the comprehension levels of an intelligent member of the general public.
Alfin,
Again, this is something about which I know almost nothing. But I find it odd that crime would have a significant genetic component, since crime rates vary so much over time. Look at the US rate from WWII to now. Skyrockets, then a long decline (but not back to the previous base). Personally I like the theory that lead absorption explains much of this (again, not that I know much about this).
As you note, most of us find the idea of a genetic link quite disturbing.
It’s kind of facile dot-connecting, but the lead exposure theory might even explain some of why violent crime is relatively elevated in AA neighborhoods, since those tend to be from more polluted areas, have more buildings with older (lead) paint, situations like we see in Flint lately…
Dana,
Lots of research on this. I’ve never look at it, however. So many interesting questions, so little time.
The FM website does deep investigations, which means it looks at only slivers of reality. So we pick our spots.
Whether it’s genetic, cultural, or random quantum fluctuations. Ultimately does it matter?
“You do what you can to help black folks, and they make you wonder, why do you even bother? But they are our people, and you have to love them regardless.”
Rando,
Two reasons that the issues raised in this post are important.
(1) The most important: in America outsiders cannot do much without cooperation and leadership from the relevant community. So long as African-American communities prioritized police practices (e.g., shooting of criminals) over their internal crime rates, nothing good is going to happen.
(2) Reliable cures require accurate diagnosis.
While I don’t disagree that an accurate diagnosis is necessary, I suspect that if any genetic component is found, it will be used as an excuse to do nothing, or worse.
Rando,
Given the long history of racism in America, I’ll bet you are correct. Let’s hope otherwise.
As blacks have higher crime rates even in countries that have never practiced slavery, I suspect there’s far more to this story than American history.