Summary: Saturday’s riot in Berkeley reveals much about the extremists driving US politics, and how acceptance of their violence by both Left and Right has led to more violence. If this rot continues we face a grim future. Here is an analysis of the riot and its signature event, rich with insights about America.
“Headed to Berkeley to disrupt neo Nazi/white Supremacist circle jerk today. Nervous af but determined to bring back 100 Nazi scalps.”
— Louise Rosealma on Facebook.
Two thugs travel to Berkeley to fight in its streets. Neither cares about America.
For the past year my son (a senior in college) has said that America has entered into a state like that of the Weimar Republic in the last years of its life (e.g., cultural degeneracy, political polarization and extremism). I disagreed.
This weekend’s riot in Berkeley suggest that he was right and I was wrong. A society is on the fast track to hell when Left and Right each cheer “their” thugs fighting in the street. That the police are unable or unwilling to quickly suppress them is confirming evidence.
Street riots often develop an episode that brings together the various social dynamics stressing that society. The confrontation of two representatives of Left and Right in America today.
On the Left
A masked young woman using various pseudonyms (e.g., Louise Rosealma). She is a porn star (in one of her videos she says she has an affinity towards pain and is exploring that side of her personality). She describes herself as “Model, Photographer, Free Soul, ANTIFA, V, Queer, Aesthetic Muse, Spitfire.” See her bio and online mentions here. Compare with her high school photo to see the effect of an expensive “education” at America’s toxic colleges. See her history in photos here.
See this video in which she appears to be asked “Do you condemn the throwing of fireworks at people?”. She appears to reply “The Revolution isn’t easy.” {There are frequent reports of ANTIFA thugs throwing fireworks, even M-80s, into crowds; see here and here.}
The Right’s trolls have released her contact information and are harassing her (a small example here). A GoFundMe account has been set up for her medical bills (if any).
On the Right
Nathan Damigo grew up in San Jose and rose to corporal in the US Marines. He attempted suicide after his first tour of duty in Iraq. In November 2007 he committed armed robbery ($43) after his second tour and spend five years behind bars. His family said this resulted from PTSD (plus drug and alcohol abuse). Their efforts to get his dishonorable discharged changed attracted attention of many media and military and civilian officials.
His story was sympathetically described in the HBO documentary “Wartorn 1861-2010
As with so many other people, his reading in prison radicalized him (especially David Duke’s My Awakening: A Path to Racial Understanding
He got an AA degree in prison and has attended Cal State Stanislaus. He is roughly 30 years old and lives in his family’s five acre compound in Oakdale, near the university (see the history of his family here). The media fawns on him, with insanely benign stories like the Modesto Bee’s “Turlock university copes with white supremacy uproar” and the LA Times’ “In diverse California, a young white supremacist seeks to convert fellow college students“.
Symbolism: Left and Right fight over a trash container.
The incident at Berkeley
Various groups organized a “Patriot Day” in Berkeley for people who support the president. Unlike events organized by the Left, where journalists lovingly describe their goals and organization, news accounts barely mentioned the event (see the stories by Reuters, CNN, and the LA Times).
The leftists attacking the pro-Trump rally contrasted with the peaceful marches demanding that Trump release his tax returns — where the violent neo-Nazi Trump supporters were conspicuous by their absence (no headlines about that). Here is a video of the event.
That these two clowns have attracted so much praise is a symptom of our problem. So let’s look at that fight more closely.
Damigo charges. Rosealma sees him, raises her hands and charges him. Update: He is attacking, she defending. Sad that something so obvious must be said.
Rosealma launches an uppercut. Damigo cocks his arm to punch her.
Both connect.
A close up of her fist connecting to his jaw.
Update: She wears what looks like a sap glove on her right hand (a weighted-knuckle glove). They are illegal in California if the knuckles are metal.
Another update: running the video in slow mo shows that those shiny things on the knuckles look like air holes – like those on a bike glove. She drove for 6 hours to get there. Why wear one heavy leather bike glove?
Unlike TV and films, he hits her harder than she hit him.
She has learned much from the many films and TV shows showing women hitting men. The men either go down (often flying across the room), or back off before her display of righteous feminism. She probably overestimated the effect of her sap glove (it is a force multiplier, not an equalizer). {It looks like a leather bike glove.}
I have written about this (The new wave: women hitting men and A new hot trend from Hollywood: women hitting men), wondering if women would apply this daft lesson in real life. Apparently some have. There is a genre of YouTube videos of women hitting men – with men, mostly African-Americans, hitting back (e.g., here).
Stories of the Left & Right about the Berkeley riot reveal much about us
America’s police in action
Tweet by journalist Tim Poole.
As the violence escalated police in Berkeley stood down and retreated from the crowds. I have never seen so few police at an event like this
— Tim Pool (@Timcast) April 16, 2017
Interview from the Berkeley riot by Shane Bauer of Mother Jones.
I tell a police officer I’ve been seeing people get beat up all day and they haven’t been around. “Okay, and?” he says. pic.twitter.com/OuGEcvvb8R
— Shane Bauer (@shane_bauer) April 15, 2017
Update: Berkeley police confiscated dozens of weapons, including a sticks, wooden dowels, poles, knives, bear spray, pepper spray, a stun gun, a mace, an axe handle, and a can filled with concrete. Seven people were sent to the hospital, including one stabbing victim. The Sheriff’s Office arrest log shows 7 arrests for felonies (mostly assault and assault with a deadly weapon) and 16 arrests for misdemeanors. More arrests are likely after police review video and social media. For details see the BPD statement and this news story.
Conclusions
Trump’s best allies.
Domestic violence is a pox on society, whether done in homes or during riots. It cannot have good effects. Cheering it, even quiet approval (it’s in a good cause) puts America on the fast track to decay.
We have had clashes of values before in our history — both America’s and the West’s. Violence didn’t help. Masked or costumed rioters — often attracted by the opportunity for violence, and enjoying it (some people just want to see the world burn) — should be condemned by both sides. Update: the reaction to the post in the comments and on Twitter consists largely of people cheering “their” thugs.
Cheering violent rioters is especially daft for the Left, as they are a gift to the Right. Every appearance builds support for the Right — and for the police. It is an instinctive response, like that of cats to snakes. Hundreds of years of history have taught the middle class that leftist mobs hate and despise them.
Let’s hope both Left and Right, Republicans and Democrats, some to their senses. Each of us can help by condemning political violence.
Dīvide et īmpera!
— Divide and rule — the motto of the 1% throughout history.
Other posts about the Berkeley riot
Was Louise Rosealma an innocent victim or a thug throwing bottles? Was Nathan Damigo a white knight defender or a right-wing thug? See the truth about stories of the Berkeley riot. See how Left and Right twist the evidence and dream up narratives to justify the actions of “their” thugs. If not suppressed, increasing political violence will put America on the fast track to serious trouble. See the stories told by Left and Right about the Berkeley riot.
The Berkeley riot might be only a taste of what’s coming: Fear the rise of political violence in America. We can still stop it.
Is the Berkeley riot the start of an uprising of America’s young men?
The Berkeley riot: a political event or scene from Lord of the Flies?
For More Information
Update — Here is an account of the Berkeley riot as seen from the Right: “Proud Boys Declare Victory in Berkeley” by Gavin McInnes at Taki’s Magazine.
If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. See all posts about protests, about Trump & and our new politics, about Reforming America: steps to new politics, and especially these …
- How to stage effective protests in the 21st century.
- Martin Luther King Jr’s advice to us about using violence to reform America.
- Why don’t political protests work? What are the larger lessons from our repeated failures?
- The protesters at Ferguson might have won, but choose to lose.
- Analysis of Left’s mob violence at Middlebury, their fast track to irrelevance.
- The Left steps across a line and embraces political violence. — The folly of “punching Nazis”.
- New research predicts a just and logical result to violent anti-Trump protests.
Contrast the Berkeley clown show with effective protests.
Marchers for the Berkeley Free Speech Movement on 20 November 1964.
Civil rights march to Selma in 30 March 1965.
Wow, just wow. The worst part from my perspective in the hinterlands is that California tends to be a trend-setter so now I get to watch this trend wash across the rest of the nation. Not looking forward to seeing this sort of thing happening in retirement communities.
My only note about FM’s article is that the young (idiotic) woman appears to be aiming to punch the guy’s throat, not his jaw. That makes a certain amount of sense given their size difference but is a potentially killing blow. She’s lucky his blow landed first or she could be in jail for murder.
Every step like this down to the road to chaos has a period where society re-evaluates itself in light of the incident and decides whether to step back from the chaos or to continue spiraling down into it. Bush and Obama would have been all over this, soothing tempers and toning down the violence. The big question is what Trump will choose to do. This is a pivotal moment in his administration and it will tell a lot about our future with him.
Pluto,
I agree on all points.
“the young (idiotic) woman appears to be aiming to punch the guy’s throat”
I don’t know where she was aiming. But the image shows that she hit his head. His head is rocked back, his features distorted upwards. I’ve been in fights. That’s what a hit to the jaw produces.
Obama never ONCE attentpted to “soothe” these eruptions. He encouraged them.
Bgbdmom,
Can you give us examples of when Obama “encouraged them”?
At 0:06 in your video. You can see Damigo punching someone in a hat holding a wine bottle by the neck, like a club. (Watch the area over the shoulder of the green sweatshirt guy at slow speed).
That is Rosealma with her hat on. https://www.everipedia.com/louise-rosealma-venus-rosales/36859172/
The “sucker punch” is actually 10 seconds into their brawl which he started to stop her from smashing someone with a bottle.
C Smith,
That’s an interesting theory. You have very keen eyes. I had to look at the video several times to even see the bottle (or what might be a bottle). But it is too blurry for me to make heads or tails of that scene, let alone draw such conclusions.
I would like to see the analysis of this by a pro using high-tech equipment.
No, sorry. This may hopefully make the Left realize it cannot win by being violent, that the Right will step up and return it in kind.
————————————————————————————
The Nazi Brownshirts WON because NO ONE stood up to them.
Their violence was allowed to stand and be rewarded as they
silenced everyone and sent them away in fear for themselves.
————————————————————————————
No, this will not happen here.
I do not condone initiating violence, but, if that is the field upon which you insist on “debating”, by all means BRING IT.
I will happily battle you with words, indeed, I am civilized and prefer it — but if this be a fight with blood, I will respond in kind. And I am far better prepared than some precious snowflake who needs a safe space.
Igotb,
That’s quite a rant. It’s also quite nuts. Goodbye.
}}} Bgbdmom,
}}} Can you give us examples of when Obama “encouraged them”?
You’re kidding, right? Trayvon Martin. BLM. Do I really have to go on?
IGotB,
“Trayvon Martin. BLM. Do I really have to go on?”
There is no need to go on. You appear incapable of giving a coherent explanation.
Here’s a picture of her, holding a bottle, she was about to hit the guy with. And don’t tell me, she wanted to drink from the bottle! That’s not how you hold a bottle to drink from…
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/17/15/3F4EF20700000578-4418540-image-a-62_1492441195942.jpg
Another picture of her, masked and wielding the bottle:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9qpbPSU0AA6lCn.jpg
Jules,
(1) “Here’s a picture of her, holding a bottle, she was about to hit the guy with.”
We have videos of her and Nathan in which we can see both of her hands — she is not holding anything. The bottle in the picture you show looks photoshopped in.
(2) “Another picture of her, masked and wielding the bottle:”
That URL returns an error message: “Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!”
They were not hitting people with bottles, they were putting M-80s in bottles and literally making IEDs, this is considered manufacture of a destructive device and it will get you 20 years in prison just for possession. The man in the picture is Nathan Damigo, a marine combat veteran who realize (and witnessed) she was making IEDs and moved to stop her. GET YOU FACTS STRAIGHT!
RF,
“who realize (and witnessed) she was making IEDs and moved to stop her.”
There is no evidence to support your accusations. You are making stuff up. You are part of the problem I describe in this post.
Your account of the interaction between the porn actress and the white nationalist is a misinterpretation. There is a youtube video that presents a still photo of a moment prior the video clip you refer to. The porn star is wearing a cap and holding a bottle while the nationalist is punching her. The video starts at a second punch, after she has lost her cap and dropped the bottle. I have seen the partial gloves she is wearing described as weighted, but I can’t verify this. Her post prior to the event establishes that she lives in a dream world of successful aggression, possibly encouraged by movies.
Michael,
That’s not exactly right. See today’s post for an analysis of the additional information that surfaced in the past two days: Stories of the Left & Right about the Berkeley riot reveal much about us.
“I have seen the partial gloves she is wearing described as weighted, but I can’t verify this.”
That’s discussed in this post. As your note, wearing one glove — on her dominant hand — is suggestive of a sap glove, but not definitive.
“Her post prior to the event establishes that she lives in a dream world of successful aggression, possibly encouraged by movies.”
Yes. Both her FB post and the possible influence of films are discussed in this post (but not described as well as “a dream world of successful aggression”).
I don’t see anywhere in Louise Rosealma’s bio where it says that she was a college student. She says that she and her boyfriend took six hours to drive up from Thousand Oaks, and LA suburb, and her home town, to attend the Berkeley event in April 15, 2017.
Osama,
Yes, I too noticed that. Which is why I didn’t say that she was a college student.
Why am I reminded more and more of the last days of Rome? “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.” But then, being Fabius Maximus, you knew that already…
> She has learned much from the many films and TV shows showing women hitting men.
My thoughts exactly. It’s corrosive. I always wondered about films from the 30’s onwards where the hero grabs hold of the woman and forces her to kiss him. She struggles, can’t break free, and then starts to enjoy it, eventually unleashing the passionate interior feelings she’d been repressing until that point.
Steve,
“Why am I reminded more and more of the last days of Rome? “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.”
When writing such things, be sure to be more specific for those who don’t know the history of Rome: “the last days of the Roman Republic.” People confuse the Republic and the Empire. As you know, Rome grew in power under the Empire, which lasted for almost 5 centuries.
The phrase “bread and circuses” comes from Juvenal’s Satires, poems written in the late first century and early second century AD — during the Empire. They refer to a people who have become peons, satisfied with hand-outs and entertainment — instead of the burdens of citizenship.
Conservatives love to cite this, as if most Americans are begging for handouts from the 1%. It’s a daft criticism. People are in fact seeking to stop the 1% absconding with most of the gains from America’s productivity growth — as they have since the 1970s.
People seek entertainment today, as they have forever. While the media change over time, that’s hardly a significant development.
America isn’t falling like the Roman Empire. It’s falling like Rome’s Republic.
Steve,
“I always wondered about films from the 30’s onwards where the hero grabs hold of the woman and forces her to kiss him. She struggles, can’t break free, and then starts to enjoy it, eventually unleashing the passionate interior feelings she’d been repressing until that point.”
Yes, that’s a common trope in American fiction. I believe you misinterpret it. Are these scenes directed at the men or women in the audience? It’s easy to determine.
> Conservatives love to cite this, as if most Americans are begging for handouts from the 1%
Interesting. In the UK it’s come to mean people being easily distracted and inured to all that’s going on around us. Never taken quite as literally here as you say it is in America.
Geegaws as social engineering, provided there’s internet, lattes and reality TV many people are very happy with their lives. Or at least not so unhappy that they’re inclined to get off their sofas.
}}} People are in fact seeking to stop the 1% absconding with most of the gains from America’s productivity growth — as they have since the 1970s.
LOL, thanks for making your politics, and failure to grasp essential economics, clearer.
I’m with Thatcher. I’d rather the poor be richer, and don’t give a damned if the rich are even richer. There’s a limit to what they can do with the excess.
Suggestion: You need to learn a hell of a lot more about economic realities, and stop listening to Occupy Wallstreet idiots.
Start here: http://www.aei.org/publication/income-mobility-for-all-income-groups-is-significant/
Dr. Perry is an economics professor at U Michigan, not some PJ wearing blogger bloviating about stuff he only partly understands.
And here’s the result of the awful 1%’s eeeevil manipulations:
For the first time, less than 10 percent of the world is living in extreme poverty, World Bank says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/05/for-the-first-time-less-than-10-percent-of-the-world-is-living-in-extreme-poverty-world-bank-says/
This despite the fact that only 25 years ago, the statistic was over 1/3rd living in extreme poverty. So more than a quarter of the world’s population has had their lot immensely improved by this system, in only 25 years.
Stop worrying about how much is in Scrooge McDuck’s pot, and worry about whether or not others have enough in THEIR pot. A lot more have enough in their pot than did 25 years ago.
IgotB,
I ignore rants (they’re just people yelling to the clouds), but this is too absurd to let pass.
“And here’s the result of the awful 1%’s eeeevil manipulations: For the first time, less than 10 percent of the world is living in extreme poverty, World Bank says”
To attribute this — mostly the adoption of capitalism — to the 1% is quite nuts. It’s the equivalent of attributing the money in a bank to the existence of a bank robber.
I have a considerable amount of experience with photoshop going back over 20 years (PS2.0) that bottle is NOT photoshopped in.
Quoth,
This is a 2 second long incident of which there are several videos. The bottle is not in the others, in which we see both of her hands. See the images in this post. That it was probably photoshopped was the opinion of a Staff Sergeant in the US Army who does graphics for a public affairs unit. He didn’t use any tools, so gave no definitive verdict. He pointed to the bottle’s location — tucked in, no hands holding it visible.
Where did you get it? Provenance is important in evaluating information.
Quoth,
Here is a close-up of a shot from the Youtube video in the post. Click to enlarge. Both of her hands are visible, no hat on her head. Both are empty. In the photo you cite, she has a blue hat on her head and is carrying a bottle. The video is the more difficult of the two to edit, so I trust it.
Quoth,
Thank you for bringing this to my attention! The photo is from Reuters, taken by a local photographer. It was a one-in-a-million photo, the climax of a two second long incident. I have emailed the photograph asking for an explanation. I’ll report back if I here anything.
Quoth,
Crowd-sourcing scores again!
Here is a gif of the incident recorded in the photo Reuters ran. Different action, different surroundings.
Note that this is circulated by people saying it shows that the girl was throwing bottles. No, it doesn’t. It shows this girl — same girl? different girl? a guy? — holding a bottle. Like the glove, it is suggestive but not definitive.
It is written…”e.g., cultural degeneracy, political polarization and extremism). I disagreed..”
I would say he is quite bright, has some perspectives and may be on to something. No doubt this virus is quite deep and subtle in its reach. Little seemingly unconnected signs are prevalent. Too numerous to list.
I heard this being played out on Saturday Sirius radio on CNN and FOX while traveling.
Not to this detail. But still noted with News Flash Brwaks every ten minutes for a period of time.
So thx. Very good counterpoints to the news about each side. Read someone saying today that violence against fascism is daft. The so called Left has succumbed to a very destructive POV.
………
Comparing this to the Sproul Palza and Civil Rights photos has got to be considered time and time again if this madness spreads. Given the basic passivity of American Society I seriously doubt much can be predicted. Cops will stand down and most of us will go to Katy’s OBLIVIA! Bombs away.
What a bloody bad joke….who could have seen this coming, eh?
Very good post and summary.
THIS IS IN REPLY TO THE EDITOR WHO REFUSES TO ACCEPT FACTS AND ACCUSES THOSE OF BRINGING THE FACTS FAKE NEWS AND SAYING IT’S PHOTOSHOPPED.
Here’s your proof: She dropped the bottle earlier, but here’s a clearer video of her coming after him with a bottle. Stop trying to say it’s edited when there’s multiple sources showing the same damn green bottle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bHf6j1T5o
NO. YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOCIETY. YOU HAVE YOUR BUBBLE AND YOU REFUSE TO LEAVE IT. EVEN WITH FACTS PRESENTED TO YOU, YOU QUICKLY SHOOT IT DOWN. OPEN YOUR EYES.
Bruce,
It was claimed that this was a photo of this incident and showed that Louise Rosealma threw bottles. It was obviously not the same fight. I traced the photo to its source video (so it was not photoshopped), compared it with the first video and confirmed that it was a different incident. The person in the two videos might be the same — the outfits are the same. It shows someone holding a bottle. It does not show anyone throwing a bottle.
You claim “here’s a clearer video of her coming after him with a bottle.” Still false. It shows Nathan attacking someone after which the person in the hat raises a bottle. You can clearly see his fist moving before the bottle is raised. Self-defense is legal in the US. In states with “stand your ground” laws the person in a hat could have blown Damigo away.
But all of this is trivia. Who cares? We know that Antifa came to the Patriot Day rally to disrupt it. Other groups can to fight them. The two sets of thugs fought. People on each side applaud “their” thugs and tell glorious stories about them. That’s the behavior that made Latin America what it is today.
Speaking from a perspective of law, this was an aggressive assault matched by an attempt at self-defense. The male rears arm back for a punch as he charges. The female attempts to react in time to defend herself in like action. The male should be charged with assault and battery, and easily convicted. No charges should be brought against female. Cut and dried. Open and shut. That’s the law. However for an editorial, feel free to spin how you want.
Chris,
(1) “The male should be charged with assault and battery, and easily convicted.”
Duh. Do you seriously believe that anyone disagrees? What is your point?
(2) “No charges should be brought against female.”
Duh, again. That she saw him and charged him is not actionable, but it was stupid. Assuming a defensive position would have been smarter. But she was “determined to bring back 100 Nazi scalps.”
(3) “However for an editorial, feel free to spin how you want.”
Did you read the post? Your comment shows no evidence of doing so, as you appear to have missed all of the points made. In brief: extremists gathered there for political violence. That Left and Right cheer “their” thugs puts us on the fast track to hell. History shows it is a surprisingly short journey.
Chris,
MB draws attention to this photo, showing that the girl has what appears to be a sap glove (aka weighted knuckles) on her right hand. That is illegal in California under Penal Code Sections 12020:
That does not excuse the assault by Nathan Damigo, but does show her intent at the riot — and perhaps explain her aggressive response to his attack.
This wasn’t the only scrape between the two, and while making no excuses for Danigo’s behavior, there’s more to this story. This woman had been reported as throwing bottles at people all day, a far more grievous offense in my mind than two hotheads engaging each other in a mere fistfight: Please note the following: https://mobile.twitter.com/RationalAthi3st/status/854085569902632960/photo/1
The second picture shows what appears to be her right arm next to her body, with the elbow bent and a cylindrical object held up at about a 45-degree angle, consistent with holding a large glass bottle by the neck. The third pic in that series clearly shows a cylindrical object in flight, which would be consistent with a bottle flying base first when thrown with an overhand motion (the same way German soldiers used to throw “potato masher” grenades in WWII, BTW).
The fifth picture shows her with another bottle in her right hand when Damigo punches her. Others reported her throwing bottles as well, and given that she chose to put on a mask and join the fray she’s clearly no innocent bystander.
Based on those pics, I wouldn’t be surprised of Damigo’s legal counsel uses this as mitigating evidence to suggest that his client was merely responding in self-defense. Again, Damigo’s no angel, but her throwing of bottles is the equivalent of an ADW or “Assault with a Deadly Weapon” per Section 245 (a)(1) of the California Penal Code: “Any person who commits an assault upon the person of another with a deadly weapon or instrument other than a firearm shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not exceeding one year, or by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.”
There is a photo just now going around, purportedly showing the woman making IED’s with glass bottles and M80’s. Another says she was using the bottle as a weapon being held by the neck and swinging it. both say she was pushed down, dropping her bottle, before the two’s interaction (swapping blows).
Brady,
I have looked at those claims and found nothing worth mentioning. For example, see this Youtube video: “Moldylocks Antifa girl was THROWING GLASS BOTTLES when she got punched“. I don’t see anything but blurs.
Here’s the most common photo montage I’ve found: “ANTIFA dreads girl caught throwing glass bottles at Berkeley protest“. All I see is her holding a bottle. She should have smashed it over Nathan Damigo’s head. But no photo of her throwing a bottle. Click to enlarge the image.
Yeah, nothing is leading me to believe she was making IED’s with the bottle, or even using it as a weapon. But the pics you posted shows her with a bottle in her hand, and her cap on at the same time, which leads me to believe this is prior to the exchange of blows.
There’s a video showing lots of stuff being thrown by the antifas, from bagels, to rocks. Its easy to assume the bottle was next…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnq3RrCYG54
So two agitaters from opposing veiwpoints meet. Not going to pick sides, and feel empathy for either. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But I will say thgis, I’ve read numerous blogs and facebook posts that are calling for his arrest, but not hers…. SMDH!!! Or better yet, but them both in a cage and see who comes out first, then arrest that person. Which reminds me of another saying, Stupid hurts, as it should.
Brady,
“So two agitaters from opposing veiwpoints meet. Not going to pick sides, and feel empathy for either.”
Exactly my opinion as well. Both are our foes.
“I’ve read numerous blogs and facebook posts that are calling for his arrest, but not hers”
Properly so. He was charging her. She saw him and acted defensively. This is America, not Britain — we have a broad right to self defense. She was well withing her rights to have broken a bottle over his head & sent him to the hospital. I wish she had done so.
After watching more videos of this in Berkeley and noting the lack of Police Enforecement I surmise that this event is perceived by the Authorities as of no serious consideration. It’s effect is actually as a nuisance and has no concern for the authorities. It certainly is not a political action in their minds.
Recall that when the Authorities reached a point during Occupy that they had enough, a coordinated action was taken whereby eighteen different municipalities simultaneously shutdown Occupy Sites. Having been at one of these over time in Denver I can tell you there was a large militarized Police action that developed and grew over months.
This does not rise to even a modicum of that level.
If and when it does, if ever, you will not need a discussion thereof to decide what has happened.
It will not be You Tubed or Televised.
This is not likely to grow or morph. America is not likely to arise, reformulate or awaken anytime soon.
Katy reflects that quite well, I think. She is worried and tells us so.
Sorry.
Breton,
“This is not likely to grow or morph.”
That’s a bold prediction. For years I have said that a powerful political reform movement is unlikely in America (in the foreseeable future), but we have conditions similar to that of the late Roman Republic. If we go down that path the violence will increase to levels few Americans can imagine today.
See America isn’t falling like the Roman Empire. It’s falling like Rome’s Republic.
“It will not be You Tubed or Televised.”
All social unrest will be on video. Either YouTube, social media, or just going viral electronically. That genie is out of the bottle, beyond government control at this time.
Can you blame them? They would be damned if they did, especially if they have to break out the pepper spray and clubs. They would be better off letting both parties tire each other out before they consider stepping in. I don’t know about you, but I’ve made the mistake of getting in a middle of a fight to try and stop it. It’s a very bad feeling when you realize that knives were involved and you’re in the middle.
Not chuck,
“I’ve made the mistake of getting in a middle of a fight to try and stop it.”
They are police. They are paid to maintain order. They could have intervened early, before it degenerated into chaos. As we saw when Berkeley broke up the Occupy camps, they are capable of using force when they want to.
You are in effect accusing them of refusing to do their duty as sworn peace officers out of cowardice.
It should also be mentioned the woman is wearing a sap glove on her punchin hand. akin to brass knuckles. i think thats illegal in California.
mb,
That’s keen vision! Thanks for pointing this out. We can’t tell from the picture, but it might be a sap glove (aka weighted-knuckle glove). The 2007 California Firearms Law prohibits ownership of “any metal knuckles”. These are “A metal knuckle means a device or instrument made wholly or partially of metal to be worn in or on the hand while striking a blow to increase the force of the impact.”
“Hard plastic knuckles” cannot be manufactured, sold, or held for sale.
Serves her right. If you even look like you are taking a swing at someone, you should not be surprised if that someone takes a swing at you. I don’t care if you are man, woman or it!! I hate white supremacists, but this woman asked for it.
Not Chuck,
That’s not correct. The video clearly shows that Nathan Damigo was charging the girl. She turned, saw him — and in response charged him. It was self-defense (however daft in nature).
FB is not letting me post this post.
Oss,
Odd. It appears on our FB page: https://www.facebook.com/FabiusMaximusWebsite/
Hi FM and all,
It’s always tempting to say things are worse now, or not as bad as they seem, or whatever.
One of the things that seems at least different between now and in previous times of protest that the Berkeley and Selma pictures represent is, that while there was plenty they were /against/ back then, they were united in being /for/ something bigger. Being for civil rights and equality before the law is more powerful than just being against racism. Being for free speech and transparency and freedom is more powerful than just being against McCarthyism and the police state. The only /unifying/ theme seems to be what folks are against.
Furthermore, the dearth of people trying to /understand/ one another, versus just believe in whatever it is they uncritically believe, is deeply troubling, and PC only re-enforces this trend. You can almost see Montgomery Burns stroking his chin saying “Excellent… Excellent…” as the antifa run rampant and normalizing the alt-right and people start trading their sap gloves and two-by-fours for Sig Sauers and Mossbergs.
If someone wanted to dīvide et īmpera, well, they’re off to a good start.
Regards,
Bill
I have long thought we were headed to copy the last days of the Roman Republic. My long term user name and email address reflect where I come from.
Rome was powerful and successful for generations after the Republic died and the Republic had been dying long before Julius Caesar ever took a breathe. A lot of death and destruction occurred during the century before the Ides of March and I suspect we will have the same. I hope it is not in my lifetime. But hey, we are not yet at daily street battles yet, so we have a bit to go yet. But it all ends in dictatorship and destruction.
But maybe the myth of the mighty female fighter will disappear from Hollywood…
Gaius,
You might find this of interest: America isn’t falling like the Roman Empire. It’s falling like Rome’s Republic.
But we are not fallen yet. We have had tough times before — far worse than today — and recovered. So I see no reason for pessimism today. We have problems and the ability to resolve them if we exercise a little wisdom and stand together.
FM-
Interesting post.
With the exception of the introduction of social media and mobile, Is this Berkeley any different than Berkeley of 20 years ago? I don’t know. I do remember getting protested and mocked as baby-killers when we played rugby there.
Right now, I’m more interested in what is going on at Stanford- the learning and creativity at the Design, Education, and Engineering schools are impressive.
Mike
Mike,
“Is this Berkeley any different than Berkeley of 20 years ago?”
What happened on Berkeley in 1997? But these events are very different than the Berkeley riots of the late 1960s and early 1970s. Those were fights between leftist rioters and police. Now there are powerful organized forces are the Right confronting them, feeding on them. Such as the Oath Keepers and hosts of smaller less organized and probably more virulent groups.
But these are small events, almost meaningless. These stews of violence are petri dishes for plagues. I suggest watching for the evolution of large and organized engines of violence. Then we will be on the fast track to hell. Very Weimar.
Worth reading about the larger dynamics at work in these protests.
“The Battle of Berkeley” by David French at National Review — “The leftist mob has sown the wind. Now, the whirlwind looms.”
“If the media accurately and comprehensively reported on leftist mob violence, it would see that a pattern has emerged: On campus and in the streets, a violent or menacing core seizes the ground it wants, blocks access to buildings, and shuts down the speech or events it seeks to suppress. This violent core is often surrounded and protected by a larger group of ostensibly “peaceful” protesters who sometimes cheer aggression wildly and then provide cover for the rioters, who melt back into the crowd. After the riot, the polite progressives condemn the violence, urge that it not distract from the alleged rightness of the underlying cause, and then do virtually nothing to enforce the law and punish the offenders.
“We’ve seen this play out time and again as mobs shut down campus speech, occupy campus buildings, and even assault innocent people — all without facing any real fear of arrest or meaningful punishment. In the aftermath of the Middlebury College incident, where protesters blocked Charles Murray from speaking, surrounded his car as he tried to leave, and sent a professor to the hospital, academics from across the political spectrum said all the right things. But the authorities have so far done nothing.
“At Berkeley, a mob blocked Milo Yiannopolous from speaking, before going on a violent rampage that included arson, smashed windows, and assault on innocent bystanders. Americans were pepper-sprayed and beaten for the “crime” of supporting Donald Trump while the police stood idly by, letting the riot play out before arresting a grand total of one person.
“Urban and academic progressive leaders can respond to violence with all the scolding tweets, sternly worded statements, and calls for calm they want. But until those who break the law and violate university policies are aggressively brought to justice, it won’t matter. As long as those who preside over our most prominent academic institutions continue to heed leftist threats and attacks rather than stand up for peaceful conservative speech, the rule of law will remain abandoned in favor of the mob’s agenda. And history proves that once a government abandons the rule of law, it has a hard time controlling the consequences.
“Case in point: this weekend’s battle in Berkeley. …”
FM-
You’ve written about this stuff extensively, but I don’t understand the significance about this event. A couple of punks got in a fight at Berkeley. Not that big of a deal. Just now, it can go viral on social media.
No IEDs. No Suicide Bombers.
I don’t see the escalation.
Mike
Mike,
“I don’t see the escalation.”
The US has always had the occasional urban riot, but this kind of sustained semi-organized political violence is rare. These events were rare two years ago, and have slowly increased in frequency and magnitude to levels not seen since the 1970s (i.e., still much lower than the 1970s). That’s escalation, but to still low levels. The question is what next?
The conditions are imo favorable conditions for these to escalate, as each side feeds on the other. The weak police response and the cheers from Left and Right. The years of apocalyptic warnings from Left and Right (Commies! Nazis! Gonna take your guns! Gonna put you in camps!) create the sense of imminent doom that helps motivate people to take to the street. The accumulated economic and social stress. The loss of social cohesion.
“No IEDs. No Suicide Bombers.”
That it has not yet arrived doesn’t mean it is not coming.
“That it has not yet arrived doesn’t mean it is not coming.”
Correct. It is also plausible that they go back home to their parents basements and play video games.
Mike,
Your original statement was “I don’t see escalation.” But there is clear escalation in political violence — with conditions favorable for continued escalation.
“It is also plausible that they go back home to their parents basements and play video games.”
Assuming it will stop is imo unwise, as is waiting to act until we see “IEDs and suicide bombers”. If I see a fire in my house, I don’t wait to see if it will burn out by itself.
“Correct. It is also plausible that they go back home to their parents basements and play video games.”
That doesn’t seem likely. The Anti-Fa terrorists truly believe in their “cause” and are happy to escalate (some were carrying knives at this event, and a few people got stabbed, that’s escalation right there).
The Trump supporters finally fought back, in a serious way, that’s *also* an escalation, since up to now it’s been the isolated case of some lefty getting popped in the mouth, this was a lot bigger than that.
Now that the Trump folks have tasted some success in fighting back, do you think they’ll back down and go back to whatever they were doing before this?
It seems unlikely.
Gman,
“Now that the Trump folks have tasted some success in fighting back, do you think they’ll back down and go back to whatever they were doing before this?”
That is the heart of the matter. Violence begets violence. Groups like the Black Bloc spark the creation (or growth) of similar groups on the Right. The two sides feed on each other.
If allowed to grow, this will not end well for America.
Sorry, but NOT a “sucker punch”. She SAW him, he SAW her. They BOTH advanced on one another. Had she been minding her own business, and he cold-cocked her, THAT would be a sucker punch. (See “knock-out game” for examples.) The she/he dynamic does not make it a “sucker punch”.
I have zero objections to Leftists DEFENDING themselves and their activities. These Leftists were not DEFENDING themselves, they were disrupting and ATTACKING someone else’s event. Which, in my book, means whatever ass-whuppin’ (under the principle of minimum use of force necessary) they get is deserved. And if the Neo-Nazi (another form of Leftist) White Supremacists decide to go busting heads at a La Raza Cinco De Mayo event next month, then THEY would deserve whatever doom befalls them.
California is, literally, the birthplace of vigilantism. It is a word that has been deliberately debased, on the mistaken notion that people SURRENDER their authority, rights, and obligations to the State, and thus ANY exercise of violence on the part of citizens is wrong Nope. The authority to deal violence is merely DELEGATED to the State. When the State fails (for whatever reason) in it’s most basic duty, then it is the right and obligation of the citizenry to step up.
That the State is failing to protect it’s citizens is one problem, but it isn’t unfixable. Whether it can be fixed depends on how much this ratchets up.
One of the great lies peddled by the Left to disarm their opponents is this:
Violence never solves anything. Except for Nazi aggression, chattel slavery in the USA, Communist aggression in Korea, etc.
Scare quotes are there for a reason, dude.
I don’t think that the girl moved forward against the guy. She put her hands up to defend herself because there was not enough time for her to flee and one of her hands thereby connected with the guy’s face. One of the still photos depicts her landing a blow but, based on the film, there was no wind up whatsoever and either the contact was incidental or she has amongst the worst martial technique of anyone ever, including children at playgrounds.
It is not unusual for people to have conflicting perceptions of physical conflicts involving others – numerous fan bases of sports franchises have different ideas about who fouled who, etc. during contentious plays. Of course, such perceptions are usually driven by the allegiances for the team that the viewer roots for. In this case, I do not root for either team and, from as impartial of a perspective as I can have, I do not think that the girl intentionally struck the guy except as a result of her trying to keep him away from her.
The whole mess bothers me in terms of how cruel people can be towards one another (obviously, I do not have a stomach for warfare). It also bothers me that what the girl has participated in to make money is being used against her in the court of public opinion. This seems to me to be equally or nearly as awful as the physical violence that was perpetrated against her.
I wish that older adults would remember back to when they were 19. Who was not an idiot at that time? As ignorant as I can be these days, I shudder when I think of my obliviousness at that age. In my opinion, it is not insignificant that young adults of that age are sent abroad to participate in warfare. I don’t think that they know what they are doing.
So when people state that the girl got what she deserved, I feel embarrassed that we would presume to have the wisdom to know such a thing. This concept of claiming to know what someone else deserves seems to me to be fraught with so much hubris as well as a lack of compassion. As if a person knows what they deserve now, let alone what they deserved when they were young and stupid. Yes, assuming that such was the case, itching for physical violence and bringing weighted gloves to the fray was stupid. I’m not so sure that we should expect otherwise from frightened and idealistic young adults in this society. It is like we have failed them twice: once through their education and environment and again with our judgment.
I believe that the guy, particularly considering his history, is worthy of compassion as well. Yet, if possible, he should try to atone for his behavior because, aside from possible scenarios cooked up in SF, horror or thriller stories, a 30-year old guy should not strike a 19-year old girl.
That said, I have little illusion that we will all just get along.
Derek,
The video clearly shows that your interpretation is wrong. He charged her. She saw this, charged him, and hit him with her glove (which looks like a sap glove).
“there was no wind up whatsoever”
The video clearly shows her raising her arm towards his chin.
“She put her hands up to defend herself because there was not enough time for her to flee”
Yes, that’s quite likely (if “putting her hands up” means striking him). But her choice of counter-attacking instead of a defensive posture didn’t work well for her.
Her reaction looks more like a defensive posture to me than a counter-attack.
“The video clearly shows her raising her arm towards his chin.”
To me it looks like she was trying to ward off whatever blows were about to come her way.
It is strange to me that we are both so sure of what the video shows and that our perceptions differ so radically. At least, I think, we both agree that the violence displayed is deplorable.
Derek,
I’ve reviewed this with others, who confirm my reading. It’s not a close call. The video shows her moving towards him. The photo of her hand’s impact with his jaw clearly shows the impact.
“It is strange to me…”
Not to me. I’ve had 50,000 comments here, with people denying almost everything up to the sun rising in the east. People construct a narrative that is ideologically satisfying, and stick with it. It’s why Americans are so easily manipulated and so often lied to (see The Big List of Lies by our Leaders).
Changing this might be a necessity for any successful political reform movement. See the posts about this in section 4 of Steps to a new politics for America.
“People construct a narrative that is ideologically satisfying, and stick with it.”
Of course. However, I watched the video without any preconceptions that I am consciously aware of. I had not heard of the event before reading your interpretation and watching the attached video.
“I’ve reviewed this with others, who confirm my reading. It’s not a close call.”
It’s cool that you would subject your interpretation to an informal peer review before writing your (as usual) well thought out post and I concede that I may be mistaken regarding my interpretation of what occurred. However, at the same time, I am skeptical that you and those that you watched the video with can absolutely be certain regarding what were, given the situation, likely the instinctual reactions of
Louise Rosealma to a larger and more powerful assailant.
I’m with you. I don’t watch a lot of the videos of these violent incidents because frankly I read about enough violence as it is, so I figure I can spare myself the video footage. But after reading your back and forth with FM, I had to see for myself.
She first appears in frame at about the 14.5 sec mark (I watched it full speed, then again at .5 and .25 speed). When she appears in frame, she is stationary but her dreads are pretty far out in front of her face, so it looks like she had just arrived at that spot with some momentum. I assume this is what FM is referring to as her “charging” him.
However, after she comes into frame, she stands there for a second and looks down towards the man in the red shirt who is beating on someone on the ground (which appears to be the fallout from the guy who ends up lying near the curb getting punched at the beginning…impossible from internal evidence to tell who is on which side). She looks towards them, turning fully away from the camera (0:15) and, importantly, the oncoming Damigo, then turns back and looks to me like she’s starting to take a posture of keeping people away from the beating going on nearby (i.e. protecting the guy in red as he beats on somebody)*.
She then turns back to her right, at which point Damigo enters the frame with a big wind-up. It appears to me that she doesn’t see him until right then, at which point she puts her hands up to fend him off, simply trying to push him away. But she has no momentum when the blow arrives and her hand at his chin doesn’t appear to have any effect on him at all.
That’s how it looks to me. She may well be wearing an illegal glove, I really can’t tell.
*or she might be looking for help to pull him off…again, the internal evidence from the video is scanty.
diptherio,
When we started the FM website project in 2007, I imagined we would be discussing visions of the future, different values, things on the edge of the known. Instead almost all of the comments are about trivia, usually disputes about 2+2. Did Saddam really have nukes? Has the Earth warmed during the past several generations or centuries? In Spring 2008 there were hundreds of comments mocking my analysis showing that we were in a recession (“not possible” said conservatives!), the recession that started in Nov-Dec 2007.
And so it goes today. A post about the unmistakable increase in violence get sidetracked by analysis of 2 seconds of YouTube video: 14 to 16 (also see the slow-mo starting at 33 seconds). So I’ll play this moronic game, again.
“She then turns back to her right, at which point Damigo enters the frame with a big wind-up.”
Yes. More specifically, he’s rushing her with his right arm cocked back.
“at which point she puts her hands up ”
Yes she raises her hands. She also steps towards him (clearly seen on the video).
“to fend him off, simply trying to push him away.”
Let’s not guess at her thoughts, pretending we’re Professor Xavier.
“But she has no momentum when the blow arrives and her hand at his chin doesn’t appear to have any effect on him at all.”
Yes, she hits him. But weakly. With the clarity of people sitting at home, we can see she should have taken a defensive position — a solid stance and arms up. The lessons learned from watching thousands of kick-ass girls on the screen don’t serve her well in a real street fight.
“She may well be wearing an illegal glove, I really can’t tell.”
Yes, for some odd reason she is wearing a glove on her right hand. The most likely explanation is that it has weighted knuckles — for fighting. If plastic knuckles, it’s legal. If metal, it’s illegal. Of course, we cannot tell which from a photo.
Anyway, you are repeating what I said in this post.
What was she doing watching people around her getting the stuffing kicked out of them? Looking for NAZIs to scalp? Note the guy to the right wearing the red MAGA hat holding the large stick. Perhaps he was to bash in some Anti-fascists’ heads. Riots gather birds of a feather.
The point of all this?
In another age the police would have tear gassed the crowd when it went wild (after anyone with peaceful intent had left), taken them all in, booked them, released them the next day. The time to meditate would have been good for them. Their IDs on file would allow more easily filing charges against the criminals identified from videos. Like the guy hitting the girl in this one.
In our time the police treat these people with kid gloves, while Left and Right cheer “their” thugs (as seen in these comments). But we might get to hear their whining after some future riot — when things really spin out of control and people get hurt (when one of the those thrown M-80s land on somebody’s head, or blind several people).
FM wants the events to conform to the narrative he has constructed that Louise Rosealma was influenced by “the many films and TV shows showing women hitting men.” Many others have viewed the footage and interpreted Rosealma’s reactions to be defensive. Yet, when confronted with an alternative interpretation, FM automatically assumes that those who see the events differently must be the those ‘People who have constructed a narrative that is ideologically satisfying and are sticking with it.’ God forbid that FM entertains the notion that he and his fellow viewers have any sort of ideological blinders or wish to interpret the event within the confines of their own narrative.
He is overburdened by going through the details of the event that he has interpreted according to the narrative he constructed. So he will “play this moronic game, again.” There were many other points in my initial post that might’ve been replied to but, against his wishes, we were evidently playing a “moronic game”. Then, the same guy who has in the past warned about the very serious problem of the militarization of the police is now concerned that “In our time the police treat these people with kid gloves.”
“When we started the FM website project in 2007, I imagined we would be discussing visions of the future, different values, things on the edge of the known. Instead almost all of the comments are about trivia, usually disputes about 2+2.” Maybe you and the other contributors can comment on your own posts then, if you do not want honest feedback. I won’t be doing so.
Derek,
“Many others have viewed the footage and interpreted Rosealma’s reactions to be defensive.”
Please read more carefully before making such daft statements. She is clearly acting defensively. I said that in the post. I have repeatedly state this in the comments. Thanks for providing another example of people posting comments in defiance of obvious facts. I’d explain how the rest of your comment is also factually wrong, but it’s obviously a wasted effort.
Here are some quotes of mine from the post and thread.
Pingback: Daily Reading #10C | thinkpatriot
See this is the sort of loose journalism thats leading the decay of our society.
You mention dozens of weapons confiscated but fail to mention from whom. Lets see. Who brought a god damn SAP to a peaceful demonstration? Oh yeah, it was a socialist thug from the left.
You talk about how both sides are wrong, and cheering each others thugs on, but the picture you posted below it, unlabelled, was of antifa, not people on the right.
And worse, you accuse both sides of being equally wrong here, and yet you forget the simple distinction between force and violence.
She attacked him (violence)..with a WEAPON no less and had planned it all along as evidenced on twitter, and he responded by hitting her exactly once, defending himself (force). The fact that you harped on how he ‘didnt have to hit her that hard’ says to me you’ve never had a person come at you like that, armed, with the intent of doing you harm. I’d gladly teach you that lesson except I’m not a violent thug on the left nor am I someone who defends violent thugs on the left unlike yourself fabius. But lets all just continue to throw our hands up like “both sides fought. It doesn’t matter who started this. Facts are just opinions. Cant we all just get along. The people fighting are stupid.”
Tell that to the polish who were ready to fight the soviets. Tell that to the Nicaraguans who fought fascist right wing death squads.
They wouldn’t call you an idiot. They’d identify you as subverting the peaceful right of self defense by making it out to be just as bad as someone who initiated an armed assault..and they’d do a lot worse than punch you.
Your right to free speech doesn’t include the right to advocate the removal of other peoples rights. No peaceful society premised on human rights can long exist that tolerates paid agitators that exploit those same rights to undermine everyone elses.
Speech is not all the same, least of all ‘free speech’. The advocating for something is distinct from advocating the end of the right to speak freely at all. The first is just exercise of free speech. The second is an attack on the very thing. If you think otherwise, or my inflammatory screed has inclined you to reflexively disagree, then you lack perspective and should remain silent on the matter.
James,
You appear to have a different understanding of journalism. I see it as reporting the available information, and drawing inferences only when that information strongly supports it.
(1) “You mention dozens of weapons confiscated but fail to mention from whom.”
I report what the police tell us (and give the link). You fail to mention what source tells us more.
(2) “Who brought a god damn SAP to a peaceful demonstration?”
We know it was a glove. We don’t know that it was a sap glove, and if so what kind (legal plastic or illegal metal). Your assertion is “loose journalism”. Also, your implication that only the leftists brought weapons is contradicted by reports from the scene.
(3) “You talk about how both sides are wrong, and cheering each others thugs on, but the picture you posted below it, unlabelled, was of antifa, not people on the right.”
I also post a picture of Nathan Damigo attacking the girl. What’s your point?
(4) “She attacked him (violence).”
False. The video clearly shows that Damigo was attacking her. She turned and responded. In America we have the right of self-defense. She was well within her rights to have smashed a bottle over his head, let alone hitting him.
(5) “planned it all along as evidenced on twitter”
Now you’re just making stuff up. She wrote an over-the-top text on FB, which suggests intent to violence — but is not definitive evidence. People often use exaggerated language without meaning it literally. For example, I doubt she intended to literally collect scalps.
(6) “She attacked him (violence)..with a WEAPON no less and had planned it all along as evidenced on twitter, he responded by hitting her exactly once, defending himself (force).”
That’s delusional. He clearly was attacking her. She responded to the attack.
The rest of your comment is also odd, but that’s enough.
Interesting that this article leaves off the immediate aftermath of the punch, which seems at least partly relevant to me. Namely, Damingo immediately retreated behind his white nationalist buddies, while Rosealma was swarmed by white nationalists who attempted to slam her head against the rocks and pavement.
Doesn’t get much more “sucker punch” than that, in my opinion.
Erik,
Thanks for that additional information! I didn’t think to check that. As you said, it is revealing.
The massive smearing attacks on her were typical behavior by both Left and Right today. Both play the game dirty. Both are our foes.
Erik, the definition of a “sucker punch” involves it being unexpected. It is a riot where everybody is getting punched or worse, and there are people running about fighting, as can be clearly seen on the video. Rosealma came to violently disrupt an opposing rally, and is shown on Reuters pictures with a glass bottle, contrary to her claim that she was taking pictures. She was obviously ready for violence. How is it even possible to get sucker punched in such a situation? For comparison, see the video with Richard Spencer getting sucker-punched: he is giving an interview, then a person suddenly jumps at him and punches.
Bottle: http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/trump-rally-turns-violent-at-berkeley?articleId=USRTS12MDO (picture 18)
Video with bottle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bHf6j1T5o (does not show that she was throwing them though)
Also, Erik, she was not ‘swamped by white nationalists who attempted to slam her head against the rocks and pavement’ in the immediate aftermath. You can clearly see this on the video below: she just stands there and rubs her face while looking bewildered, and her friends are coming back. Why do you feel compelled to make statements which you did not even try to verify?
Video showing the immediate aftermath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PevGWvB7Z_s
I believe your basic premise that both sides are equally wrong is very flawed. It was the left, i.e. the Marxists tugs that invaded someone else’s event with the goal of sending them packing by use of violence. These thugs deliberately sought to inflect physical harm on people with an opposing political view point and arrived armed with rocks, bottles, sticks and knives to do just that. Their intent was to silence people and deny the protesters their First Amendment Rights. They wanted to taste blood and “take scalps”. What is different this time from past violence by the left is that their force was met with equal and possibly greater force. This bothers many lefties, especially those that thought that since they have been able to get away with violence on others before they could do it again. Their mistake, the “right” is no longer going to just lay down and take it.
Louise Rosealma (or whatever her name is) is not some innocent by-stander. The “she did”/”he did” is completely irrelevant. She and the others with her were all there for the specific purpose of engaging in violence against others. They are all guilty of infringing on the Civil Liberties of others and assault. Her very presence there and participation in the acts of violence that took place is a crime. Perhaps she will rethink her future participation in violence against others, but that is not likely. She will be back, her indoctrination into Marxism is complete and she has tasted blood and spilled some of her own.
Yes, many on the right came prepared. Why wouldn’t they? They have seen time and time again that the local governments and police will not provide any protection against left wing violence. They saw this in Ferguson, Baltimore and all across California, Oregon and Washington State. They saw it all across the nation during the presidential campaign. Everywhere you have left wing politicians cover for left wing violence has been provided and the police told to stand down. This happened at the event in question as well. You can be beaten for your political views and they will not lift a finger to protect you. Kind of sounds like Nazi Germany or some Islamic shithole in the Middle East. Not supposed to happen in America, is it?
So far the left, including the Media, the Obama Administration, Hillary Clinton, the DNC, Muslim Brotherhood, Black Racist Organizations such as Black Lives Matter, etc. have been content to encourage individual acts of violence, i.e., lone wolf terrorism and staged (often paid for) violent protests. Trump is usually the scapegoat but they would be doing this regardless of which Republican was elected. Their “agenda” is to force their politics onto others by any and all means necessary – including physical violence up to and including murder. If the Marxists escalate their violence with the use of arms it will be met with overwhelming violence from the right and many of them will die.
I would encourage everyone that does not want to see that happen to insist that government and especially law enforcement do its damn job and arrest the violent radicals. If this does not happen Roman will burn.
Royce
“I believe your basic premise that both sides are equally wrong is very flawed. ”
I say nothing remotely like that. “Right” and “wrong” are useless concepts to describe sides in a street fight. The good people avoid those. The thugs of all flavors who go to such things are the problem. The thugs on both sides mutually feed off one another, in a dynamic that is dangerous for America. It’s an old story in history.
People like you are part of the problem, on both Left and Right — cheering your thugs as good. I say throw the thugs of both sides in jail, and let them fight it out in the prison yard.
No, people like you that have sit and watched left-wing terrorists assault innocent people for over a year are the problem. Your plan is to lay down and submit to their violence because you are a coward.
Royce,
“No, people like you that have sit and watched left-wing terrorists assault innocent people for over a year are the problem. Your plan is to lay down and submit to their violence because you are a coward.”
Delusional nonsense, just making stuff up. I’ve done exactly the opposite. Good-bye.
Royce,
As rebuttal to your lies, I have been writing for several years about the increased use of political violence by the Left:
Domestic violence is indeed a pox on our society, however, you do a great disservice to the true victims of domestic violence by even suggesting domestic violence occurred here. Do you know something we don’t? Did these two knuckleheads have a prior domestic or intimate relationship that boiled over in a public place? I doubt it. Do you call it domestic violence simply because a young woman got punched?
Damigo probably didn’t even know it was a female before taking his swing. Frankly, she looked like every other grungy skinny jeaned hipster guy I’ve ever seen, only wearing a face covering. And even if he knew beforehand that it was a female he was taking a poke at, so what? It is abundantly clear she didn’t show up to engage in civil discourse. Rather, she was there to visit violence on those with whom she has a differing political opinion which is why she was “nervous AF.” While I abhor was it taking place on both sides of this, it wasn’t domestic violence and I feel zero sympathy for her. Even though I was raised to never, ever hit a woman, I’ve spent my entire working life in law enforcement and if a woman physically attacks me, I have the god given right to and will utilize whatever degree of force is necessary to defend myself. If a woman physically attacks me, she just grew a pair of nuts and I’ll knock them in the dirt if needed and that that isn’t domestic violence.
Bexley,
Think bigger. We are all Americans, in one large home. This is recognized in our language. We speak of “domestic policy” and “foreign policy”. Violence we wage among ourselves over politics is a pox, and spreads like one.
It was mentioned, but it seems no one is connecting the dots. Thankfully the added GIF shows her and the guy whom is accused of assaulting her, in a prior altercation before the exchange of blows. Though I’m no expert, it looks like the guy knocks the bottle out of her hand, at which point her hat is knocked off, and her hands start coming up, but without the bottle. And then (IMHO) this is where the video of the blows exchanged takes place.
So now there are 3 different camera angles that show her with the bottle in her left hand, grasping the neck, with the bottle in the upward position as to be used as a weapon.
This to me is the beginning of their altercation….
https://i.redd.it/xmwppv47b6sy.jpg
This is just before the blows..
https://kiwifarms.net/attachments/temp-png.207110/
I could be wrong, and it is photoshopped, but where is her hat in the altercation?
Brady,
Tomorrow’s post goes over this in more detail. But your sequence is not accurate. There are two incidents recorded by video. In both Nathan is the attacker. We don’t know they are the same victim (they’re dressed similarly). In both the victim acts defensively (once with hands, the other with a bottle). The photo you describe as the beginning is the end of one of the two incidents. We don’t know their sequence (we can guess; careful study of people’s movements might show the answer).
Enjoyable read.
Ill keep it short but haven’t the left since day dot been the foundinh of the left/right wing . With the mountain men then the Jacobins and the (lack of better word) progressive policymakers. That where in forced by what become known as the terrors.
(You know guillotines, baskets blood in the street of Paris).
And unlike then the second estate was hated for its greed and standed settings of morality. The 4th estate that seems like have been trying to replace thw church as morality guide. People seem to not question the dogma now taught.
Many of the questions raised here are answered in this new post
This looks at the additional information that has surfaced during the past two days.
Examining stories told by Left and Right about the Berkeley riot.
Man… woman… transgender man… transgender woman… nonconforming gender fluid reptile… who can really say what their sexes (or species) are without putting a judgmental label on them? It’s 2017 and we should all be past social constructs like sex, species or political affiliation. We are all equals after all, aren’t we?
What we have here are several skirmishes between 2 or more biological entities. We cannot presume to know the motives for their actions, their political views at that particular moment in time or whether their intentions are noble or evil.
We should not try to judge them based on a few cherry picked out of context seconds of their lives. We should merely watch and enjoy their artistic expressions of individualism – or join in if you feel like engaging in a little real life performance art.
Other than that, AntiFa terrorists got their asses kicked by based good guys.
Capital G,
“We should not try to judge them based on a few cherry picked out of context seconds of their lives.”
That’s an interesting idea. I suggest you put it in practice. Give it as a defense when a cop stops you for a traffic violation, when a kid puts a ball through your window, when a street gang keys your car, and when you are mugged. Go to some trials and share your perspective with judges and juries!
I must say I can’t see the uppercut from Rosealma. Both her hands are palms forward and not in fists. And the hand in Damigo’s throat is a palm forward not a fist.
I see it as a defensive gesture. An attempt to stop Damigo’s charge.
Rune,
“I see it as a defensive gesture.”
You’re kidding, right? Of course it is a defensive move. That’s clearly shown in the pictures and I note that in the text.
As for her blow, it’s clearly shown in the opening photo. His head is rocked back, his features distorted upwards. I’ve hit people; that’s what they look like. If she had a bottle, she should have broken it over his head. If she was armed in a stand-your-ground state, she could have blown him away.
Try looking at the video in your post from 20th April.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQGho_N0uBs
Go to 0:27. Observe two things. She closes her eyes well before contact and there is no blow from her. It’s palm forward. A defensive push. Do you hit someone by closing your eyes in advance? Do you attack someone like that?
My take is that she knows Damigo (from the earlier run in) and closes her eyes in preparation because she knows she will be hit.
Rune,
(a) “Do you hit someone by closing your eyes in advance?”
First, that’s quite an observation from a blurry video. Second, that’s common when fighting or shooting (or kissing). A stress reaction.
(b) “My take is that she knows Damigo (from the earlier run in)”
She specifically said otherwise in her interview — that she was hit once by him and twice by other people.
(c) What point are you attempting to make? I post photos of a guy running up and hitting a women. People defend his actions as justified defense of free speech. Just as good leftists defend “antifascists” breaking up a peaceful march with violence. You obsess over the most trivial details of the incident. Doesn’t that strike you as odd?
Next will you comment on the fashion aspects? Was the guy stylish? What are the gender ideology aspects of her clothing choices?
Do I obsess or do you?
You try to argue that someone with closed eyes and palms forward can in a fraction of a second throw an uppercut. Closed eyes and palms forward are observable in the video. I don’t buy your story so let’s leave it at that. People can see for themselves. As for her lying to misrepresent the situation. Well, that’s not exactly news. People do that.
There is nothing new about street violence in Europe. We have had that for decades and are we turning into semi-democracies? The real concern will be when parties organize militias.
From Denmark in the 80’s. The public support was for the Polish woman not the skinhead who got hit in a legitimate peaceful Nazi march. http://www.uriasposten.net/pics/SVT-UG2014-DGV26.jpg
And from 2014 where the leader of the Danish Nazi party, Esben Rohde Kristensen, got beat up. http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article4831282.ece
Left and right-wing Danish extremists have been beating and even killing each other for decades in Denmark. It comes in waves which side is the most active. Do you see an effect on our democracy? I can’t.
Socialist killed http://projektantifa.dk/nyheder/article/bombemordet-i-sollerodgade-20-ar
Nazi assaulted http://politiken.dk/indland/art4942078/D%C3%B8mt-for-overfald-p%C3%A5-nazist
Rne,
“You try to argue that someone with closed eyes and palms forward can in a fraction of a second throw an uppercut. …As for her lying to misrepresent the situation.”
Your obsession with this is odd. Your assumption that your interpretation is more valid than the victim’s testimony is bizarre.
“There is nothing new about street violence in Europe.”
You jest delightfully (i.e., I assume you are kidding).
“The real concern will be when parties organize militias.”
Yes, that’s the point of this post. Nice of your to eventually see it. By the way, as the post says – we already have militia (see the cited 2009 intel report warning about them). The risk is that they’ll metastasize.
Rune,
Two more points.
(1) About levels of US political violence compared to Europe’s, an indicator of potential instability.
Since 1860 there have been over 20 attempts to kill US presidents. Six have been shot, four fatally. They are kept alive by fantastic levels of protection, radically beyond that given to Europe’s heads of state. As I said, the US starts with a level of violence far higher than Europe’s (where the most similar conditions are small pockets of secessionists, most of which now are at low levels of violence).
(2) “Do I obsess or do you?”
You repeatedly argue about details of this incident. I respond with a reply to your specific point — but also note that it is trivial, and ignores the far more important aspects. So the answer is you obsess.
One should realize that when the “updates” continuously correct the previous “facts”, the “facts” were baseless. The left are violent and intolerant. Their history in America bears witness to this assertion. The left came to this event seeking to “shut it down” by any means necessary. The porn star’s messages were not the only ones which gave insight as to the left’s intent on that day.
The porn star was an intolerant bottle throwing thug. As were many others of the left. What the left encountered at this particular event was a level of response they did not expect. They thought people would just shut up and go home. They not only got the beat down they deserved, they should expect more of the same.
Jesus,
“The left are violent and intolerant.”
Just like the Right. After all, both extremists are Americans. No reason to assume they’re different in behavior or nature.
“The porn star was an intolerant bottle throwing thug.”
There is no evidence that she threw a bottle or acted like a thug. The point of this post is that both sides create myths showing their side as good and the other as bad. You — and most of the commenters here — do so.
“They not only got the beat down they deserved, they should expect more of the same.”
Another voice celebrating street violence, urging America to follow the examples of Weimar Germany and Latin America, bringing disaster to America. Thank you for demonstrating the validity of the threat described in this series of posts.
Fortunately I believe the police will be able to gas and imprison your thugs and the thugs of the left. They can chat in prison about political theology, and the rest of us will work to run America.
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Video: Moldylocks Antifa girl was THROWING GLASS BOTTLES when she got punched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bHf6j1T5o
Osama,
This video is discussed in Stories of the Left & Right about the Berkeley riot reveal much about us. It shows her holding a bottle. It does not show her throwing a bottle.
There were multiple reports of Antifa members throwing glass bottles on April 15 at Berkeley; so if you saw an Antifa holding a glass bottle during the altercation, there is a strong possibility that the person was among those throwing bottles that day. Anyway, she was definitely there for a fight, as she wrote on Twitter.
Osama,
While you deductions are fun to read, nobody cares. We had two sides fighting the street. Nobody cares are their excuses, any more than adults care for the excuses of the brawling children they resemble.
As for Louise and Nathan, not even Sherlock Holmes has the legal right to hit a girl standing in the street based on his deductions. That you find this difficult to understand is sad, but typical on this thread. Fortunately the majority of Americans who saw the video understand what they say more clearly.
Antifa were committing acts of vandalism and assaults on innocent bystanders and journalists many years before the advent of Ferguson, Black Lives Matter, and Trump. I am not a right-winger, nor a “Patriot”; I am a socialist — but I strongly disapprove of the violent, aggressive tactics and the intolerant, extremist ideology of the Antifa. I see Antifa as the embodiment of the violent, totalitarian fascism that they claim to oppose.
Osama,
I don’t know the history of Antifa. But as with most societies, the US has a long history of violence by both Left and Right. Each treasures the violent acts by its foes, with amnesia about its own despicable acts. Failed states remain locked in endless cycles of tit-for-tat violence.
Successful states ignore the history — the childish cries of “you started it” and “no, you did” — and deal with the present reality. Which at Berkeley was two group of thugs fighting in the streets. Some gas followed by police action would have made this a footnote in history.
Instead we get both sides’ lies and applause for “their” thugs. The disgusting rhetoric seen in this thread.
This is an opportunity for citizens to demand that police maintain public order, jailing vigilantees and other rioters — and allow politics to take its proper course.
I agree with your sentiments and your intentions, Maximus. However, allow me to clarify my own opinion a bit further. I am certainly a “leftist”, although I am an independent thinker, and I do not follow the doctrinaire “politically-correct” leftist dogma. I want to see a 100% tax placed on all incomes exceeding 10X the minimum wage, or $250K. I want to see the right to breathe clean air and drink clean water recognized as a “natural right”. I want to see the “natural rights” of all people throughout the would recognized by the US Constitution — not just for US citizens. I think that the US Founding Fathers were Privileged and bigoted aristocrats, not Saints, and that the Constitution was also flawed – and it would benefit from some rewriting. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 — I voted for Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, although I disagree with the Green Party agenda on many subjects. I might never vote again in a US election, because I do not think that the USA can be reformed by working within the system — the capitalist economy guarantees that the USA will always be ruled by the wealthy, elitist upper class. I am not a “patriot” — I oppose US foreign policy,and a great deal of US domestic policy, and I think that the US government and its economic system were designed by wealthy elitists to serve the interests of the wealthy elitist upper class. The Antifa have a policy, often stated on their web sites, in their speeches, and also acted out in public, of physically attacking journalists, photographers, and anyone who disagrees with them. In my city, in November 2016, the Antifa sent a warning out to the local mainstream media (TV, radio, and newspapers) that their reporters would be assaulted at protests, and a local TV news crew was physically attacked by the Antifa. After that attack, and that warning from the Antifa, the news crews and reporters have moved back, and kept a safe distance from the Antifa while covering the protests. In 2012, I published a comment on the website of a local radio station in which I listed, along with references and links to media sources, a dozen incidents between 2009 and 2012 in which the local Antifa had run riot and vandalized cars, businesses, and homes, and incidents where the Antifa physically attacked journalists, photographers, and innocent bystanders. Writing that comment put me an the “enemies list” of the Antifa. The Antifa labels anyone who disagrees with them, or criticizes them, as a “Nazi”, and the Antifa are relentless with their pursuit and their attacks on their critics. I know many people who the Antifa have waged a smear campaign against. For me, countering the Antifa is not simply political, it’s personal — because the Antifa pose an existential threat to myself, my friends, and my community. I think that the opposition between the Antifa and the “Patriots” has been provocateured or orchestrated by the wealthy ruling elite as part of their agenda of “divide and conquer”, yet I am glad to see the so-called “Patriots” fighting back against the Antifa — because a political victory of the Antifa would become a totalitarian nightmare.
P.S. I agree that we are living in the equivalent of the Weimar Republic. And the Antifa are the equivalent of the Nazi Brownshirts, or Mussolini’s Blackshirts.
Osama,
“I agree that we are living in the equivalent of the Weimar Republic.”
Wow. That’s quite over the top. There are some operationally useful points of similarity. But that’s an example of ““History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes” (aphorism, source unknown).
“And the Antifa are the equivalent of the Nazi Brownshirts….”
The distinguishing feature of Weimar were conflicts between left and right political parties. With the clarity of hindsight we see who won — and consider that inevitable. But in 1928 the Nazis were almost exterminated as a political force. The great depression — and Weimar’s conservative response to it (like Hoover, austerity) gave them the opportunity to grow.
At Berkeley we saw a tiny, almost microscopic, example of similar conflicts — with the most significant factor not the light fighting (with almost no casualties, the equivalent of a tea party in the near-by inner cities of Oakland and Richmond) but the applause for the fighting thugs by Left and Right. Like you.
You are the similarity to the street fights in Weimar, you and those like you on the left and right.
It’s too soon to assign roles to the various players equivalent to those of Weimar, if indeed that even becomes appropriate.
Another similarity of the Nazi Brownshirts and the Antifa are the widespread attacks on speakers and on free speech at the Universities. The fact that the mainstream media, local governments, the police, and academia have been allowing the Antifa to commit crimes with impunity is a sign of the pro-Antifa bias within those institutions — and part of the Establishment plan for orchestrated destabilization followed by increased Police State powers.
Louise Rosealma the Antifa Girl who got punched, lying to the media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdeskeIcxGw&t=328s
Moldylocks Antifa girl caught LYING TO SNOPES, says Reuters photograph was “doctored”
The Antifa often commits Kristallnaght-style attacks on the shop windows of businesses and auto lots.
TRUMP RIOT PROTEST DESTROYS CARS AT CAR DEALERSHIP ALL CAUGHT ON CAMERA
Osama,
We get the point. But you are pointing out only one side (typical for partisans wearing blinders).
See the deeds of their fellows on the Right, as described in the 2009 DHS report and many subsequent FBI reports and news stories. Such as shootings of cops, which I don’t believe has any equivalent on the left (today, that is — it was one of their signature moves in the late 1960 and early 1970s).
Establishment employees and academic role models are encouraging, and participating, in violent and divisive riots.
ANTIFA Bike Lock Bandit Identified as Professor Eric Clanton of Diablo Valley College by /pol/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-66TH-TVuM
Tucker Carlson debates the organizer (Berkeley Unified School District employee and Martin Luther King Middle School teacher Yvette Felarca) of the UC Berkeley Riots
Repeat: I do not support Trump. I do not support the right wing. I am not a conservative. I am not a “Patriot”. I do not respect the US Government, nor do I advocate anarchy, nor Soviet-style, nor Chinese-style communism. I am a partisan for my own causes, but not for either side of the Trump versus Anti-Trump, or Republican versus Democrat, con games. I do not advocate violence, except in self-defense. I advocate information and education as the essential method of reform.
One does not need to belong to a recognized political party to be politically motivated. How certain can you be that some, or perhaps many, of the police shootings of the past decade were not, at least partially, politically motivated by left wing sentiments?
To clarify my last point, we cannot be sure how often the decision by a poor person to commit a crime, or to resist a police officer, or to kill a police officer, was motivated, or partly motivated, by an essentially leftist animosity toward an oppressive and essentially right-wing society and government. Historically, leftist revolutionary groups have often justified armed robbery as a “revolutionary act”. Perhaps, sometimes, poor people who commit a crime, or resist a police officer, or kill a police officer, likewise imagine themselves as resistors or insurgents committing “revolutionary acts”.