Summary: This article reports the dying of romance, one of the great events of our time (an example of the bolts popping out of American society). But the author cannot bring himself to look at the most obvious cause – feminism. Some cows are too sacred to criticize. But this is progress nonetheless. Problem recognition is the first step to a solution.
“How America Grew Bored With Love“
By David Masciotra at The American Conservative. Annotated.
“The pop love song and rom-com have died, relics in a world of instant gratification and consumerism.”
“Donny Hathaway and Roberta Flack sang ‘Where is the love?‘ in an unforgettable hit from 1972 {Wikipedia}. Their breakup ballad could now double as an odd anthem for American culture. Its people, art, and entertainment have rejected romance and sexual intimacy as subjects worthy of celebration and investment. In a sad commentary on an increasingly dysfunctional society, love has all but vanished from pop culture.
“In 2014, the Journal of Advertising Research published a study documenting an odd decline in references to love throughout popular music. The word had fallen below phrases such as ‘good time’ and epithets such as the N-word on the list of most commonly sung terms in the chart topping hits of the 2000s.”
From “All You Need Is Love” in the Journal of Advertising Research, March 2014.
“Communication Insights From Pop Music’s Number-One Hits.”
Love was ranked first for three decades. It then dropped to third, then to ninth (below “n*gg*”).
“Music critic John Blake took notice seven years ago of how R&B – a genre that once gave the world Al Green and Aretha Franklin – no longer produced or broadcasted songs of romantic passion (‘Where is the love in R&B music?‘ at CNN). The only four letter word impermissible in hip-hop is “love.” Sexuality is primarily a means of misogynistic conquest; committed bonds of affection are not worthy of pursuit.
“Film is equally sterile and chaste. Leading men are more likely to wear face paint and capes than tuxedos or cowboy hats, and starlets jockey for ‘transgressive’ roles as tattooed, gun wielding action heroes, rather than brides-to-be or even femme fatales.
Editor’s note: Gender roles are increasingly reversed by Hollywood. For example, women hitting men (the men passively taking it), andwomen almost always being the one to initiate kisses. In Hollywood reality, women love faint-hearted betas – not bold alphas. Not so in the real world.
“Esquire recently reported that ‘moviegoers are tired of romance on the silver screen.’ A writer for The Washington Post declares that ‘the rom-com is dead. Good.’ Both articles attribute the lack of interest in love among the movie-going public to shifting social mores that now render the ‘clichés’ of the boy-meets-girl movie ‘offensive.’ It has become the stuff of cliché to read ‘cutting edge’ cultural critics deconstruct popular love stories like Pretty Woman
“Any heterosexual male attempt at seduction is now, in the words of one writer, a perpetuation of ‘society’s unprogressive cultural expectations regarding gender roles.’ Even nonsexual expressions of genuine feeling arouse anger. In ‘I Rewatched Love Actually and Am Here to Ruin It for All of You‘ at Jezebel, Lindy West (a New York Times columnist) summons all of her brilliance to call a British character in the film Love, Actually, who learns Portuguese and flies to Portugal to propose to a woman who spent a summer cleaning the house where he was staying, ‘creepy.’ The woman accepts the proposal in English, showing that she too took language lessons because she also fell in love with him.
“Is it any surprise, then, that in literature, as Vijai Maheshwari recently asserted at Quillete, ‘men cannot write about sex anymore’?
“In this fearful and inquisitorial atmosphere, sex is dangerous, and writing about sex is doubly dangerous.”
“As an instructor at a small university, I am continually shocked by the languid sterility of the contemporary college classroom. Most of the young men and women wear sweat pants and moccasins, rarely speak, and spend more time looking at their phones than each other.
“My observations might seem contradictory, but they actually complement studies of how college students who are sexually active are increasingly dissatisfied, claiming that they do not enjoy sex because it is the province of an increasingly vulgar and transactional ‘hookup culture.’ Rather than a stage in courtship, sex is now something that transpires between two drunken strangers at the end of a long party.
Ed. note: Allan Bloom saw the early signs of this in the 1980s and foresaw their inevitable results. He described them in Closing of the American Mind
“Sociologist Lisa Wade spent five years studying ‘hookup culture,’ and her conclusions are as weird as they are disturbing.
See her book, American Hookup: The New Culture of Sex on Campus
“‘There’s a dichotomy between meaningless and meaningful sex, and students have to go out of their way to “perform meaninglessness,”’ according to an NPR summary of Wade’s findings. ‘They have to prove that they’re not emotionally attached to their sex partners, and in fact that they care less than the other person.’
“An airport kiss between two reunited lovers, or the cries of passion from Marvin Gaye or Etta James, must seem like the unintelligible language of aliens to a generation who, according to Wade, ‘only have sex with partners they’re not interested in’ because they consider genuine feeling the most obscene offense against their idea of ‘cool.’ …”
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In the rest of the article, there is the usual guessing about causes of these changes. As usual with respectable conservatives, feminism is not mentioned. Feminists attacks on romance are seen but their significance is ignored. Companies pay the media billions to sell products, but assume that the media does not shape our culture.
The kind of love that women express in today’s music.
There are many songs expressing the true love of feminist women! These sentiments cannot be said by men. That would be toxic masculinity.
Whitney Houston sings of “The Greatest Love of All” (2010). Lyrics and video. 121 million views.
“I never found anyone who fulfilled my needs …And so I learned to depend on me. …Learning to love yourself. It is the greatest love of all.”
Here is the tagline to Taylor Swift’s video “Out of the Woods” (2015). 144 million views. That’s a summary of Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), fiercely attacked by feminists.
“She lost him. But she found herself. And somehow that was everything.”
Ariana Grande (age 25) sings about her four great love affairs in “Thank you, next” (2018). Lyrics and video. 211 million views in one month. At the end we learn she has at last found someone worthy of her!
“I met someone else. …this one gon’ last. ‘Cause her name is Ari.”
About the author
David Masciotra is the author of four books. Most recently, Mellencamp: American Troubadour
For More Information
Ideas! For shopping ideas, see my recommended books and films at Amazon.
If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. See all posts about society and gender issues, about feminism, about marriage, and especially these …
- The revolution in gender roles reshapes society in ways too disturbing to see— Allan Bloom on relationships.
- MeToo = Salem Witch trials 2.0 – See what young women consider “harassment.”
- Second thoughts about romance in the #MeToo age.
- The coming crash as men and women go their own way.
- America’s men and women, alienated from our true selves.
- The rising number of celibate men: it’s an alarm.
- Marriage dying. Less sex. More loneliness. Society dying.
Two books about the effects of the feminist revolution
The War on Sex
Cheap Sex: The Transformation of Men, Marriage, and Monogamy
I love your articles in general (especially the climate ones) and have been reading your editorials for a few years now. But these always hit a little close to home for me. As perennially unlucky guy in his 20s I find myself isolated from the modern dating culture. I don’t want meaningless hookups (and I’m not sure I could even get any of them in this sellers market) and I find that I have trouble even connecting with most women these days. I would consider myself a “romantic” if that word still had any meaning at all. So I just have good guy friends instead.
I’m in exactly the same age demographic and situation, though my favorite posts are often from Zero Anthropology.
Watch this, its revelational imo.
I think many young men today look at relationships as an either/ or. There is a young lady out there who wants your love. Everybody needs cuddles and love even a dog. We are hard wired to want the ‘other’ that is not us. Don’t give up, keep pressing in. Expand the pie don’t divide it as though growth is not possible.
I try to tell my son that computer games, male drinking buddies and porn are no substitute for the real thing.
I also tell him, don’t look in a brothel if you want a faithful wife. Look for a girl that is not going to fall into bed with you on the third date. She is not likely to be a good pick. Search for a girl that is virtuous, respects her parents, religion and culture and you are likely to have a solid base to attach yourself to.
7zander,
“I think many young men today look at relationships as an either/ or.”
That’s often been the case since forever. Madonna or slut. Probably because men have to make a binary choice, marry or not. So the thousand shades of grey doesn’t help, analytically.
As for your advice – I talk to many young men (they’re in their 20s), the ones I trained as a Boy Scout leader. They often mock advice like yours. Or rather, mock older men who give advice like yours. It’s advice for a world long gone. My favorite is replaying it as “Find a unicorn, young man!”
I suggest listening to your son before lecturing. It’s a new world out there.
To all…
Advice to younger generation. What a bloody term. I can offer only the ones which worked for me or the closest to me people.
My good friend (a-half-generation older than me) had a nasty divorce and, after all the silt settled, on the lookout for a new mate, he resorted to something people don’t appreciate any longer as a match-maker — he, in his love of G&S joined a local troupe and found his second mate right there! An almost a generation younger lady, who has stayed with him to this day! They don’t sing any more duets, I think; however, they found what they both were looking for, they have a daughter together and enjoy their lives!
So, if you like hiking — join a local club, if you love horse riding…….
Well, if you “love” computer games, there may be a dead end there, but I would still try!
Romance comes in many disguises and at any age. Just don’t give up!
I’m sorry to appear as trying to break down the Editor’s narrative here, but in this aspect I have always had a plenty of optimism…
Great advice
Yes. Feminism, liberalism, not so smart iPhone’s, the breakdown of the family unit, Disco, Rap and whatever else they are playing today (I wouldn’t know).
Myself, I’m an old classic rocker. Most tunes told stories of love and hate, war and peace, the British invasion. No computers or phones but FM, vinyl and eight-track tapes (if you were cool).
I learned about love in the back seat of my 1969 Chevy Nova parked down at the lake.
Married that girl and another one and found out the hard way that wedding vows don’t mean shit regardless of the music. Then or now.
Here’s one of my favorites from days of the revolution, some may even know what CSNY are singing about;
Yes, it’s a shame liberalism has been dismantling the traditional structure of romance, like that noted liberal, Ronald Reagan, who signed America’s first no-fault divorce law.
The real,
Take it from me, a man will be worth half of what he was after a divorce, if he’s lucky.
Ron,
The men of the African-American community have mastered modern gender relations, and might be a model for our future. A large fraction (compared with white and asian boys) are bad boys, highly attractive to modern women. They are more likely to be buff (ditto). They marry at far lower rates. And they tend to have lower participation in the rat race – less income, less assets – giving Family Court less to plunder.
This gives the Black community its somewhat polarized atmosphere: matriarchal in some senses, patriarchal in others. They were the first test tube for Leftist social engineers, and we can learn much from how Black men have responded. The same forces are working on the rest of us.
Anecdote from when I was a social worker (in NY State, at the north end of Appalachia) in the late 1970s – To get Aid For Dependent Children (money for each new child), the woman had to identify the father. Social services would track him down, attempting to force him to sign paternity papers – and assume some financial support. One frequent visitor to our office was a young Black man. On the small side, slender, bright spirit, cocky. He was a short order cook, making too little (at least, on the books) for even Family Court judges to extract much. He would happily come in to sign another paternity form – doing a little victory dance. He lived in a small apartment. His wife lived in the apartment on one side. His favorite girlfriends lived in the apartment on the other side. He had kids by both, and by many others. From a Darwinian perspective, he was a big winner.
My step-brother had four (at least) kids by two women. Married neither; supported neither. I have two kids by my present wife. Darwin would say he did better than I.
This is our society.
Great post on how the black community is the canary in the coal mine for the rest of America on this. I’ve seen this first hand—being a black American from a major US city myself.
Dragnet,
Can you give us a bit more background info on this? I have been an observer. As a social worker. As a Director of a Boy Scout Council. As a recruiter for the western USA for a major global investment bank. But that’s not first person knowledge.
What do you think of this, from A surprise end to the gender wars: men stand together?
I looked up the opposite of misogynist. It is misandrist. It is appropriate that misandrist is not in common use while misogynist is.
It is time to change that,
John,
Tit for tat is a strategy for children. Men decide what is a functional social structure – and build it.
Larry, normally, I would agree with you. This time I think the following is more important:
Problem recognition is the first step to a solution.
In a pandemic of word use, not calling out something also reminds me of :
To be silent is to acquiesce.
Not to be captain nit-pick, but those words aren’t opposites, they are counterparts.
The Real,
Thanks for catching that! Precision is always appreciated here.
I tend to pick my women up in drinking establishments. Used to be at church but the selection at church is not as good as in bars these days. Perhaps in a decade or two it will have to be in brothels. After that, I seem to remember you writing about robot sex dolls, the wave of the future.
So you see, it is not entirely hopeless, as long as you are not hoping for future generations capable of achieving something.
And people who end the critique at “Feminism is to blame! It’s all to do with feminism!” refuse to face the obvious.Feminism is simply the expression of the social and political interests of women. Feminism is not something that just happened. Feminism is something that women made happen. We have the sort of relationships between the sexes that we have, because those are the sorts of relationships that women want.
MBlanc,
“We have the sort of relationships between the sexes that we have, because those are the sorts of relationships that women want.”
There are two killer problems with that analysis. First, most relationships are between a man and a woman. It’s not just about “what women want.”
Second, surveys overwhelming show that women are unhappy with broad aspects of the new social regime. Delayed marriage. Inability to marry. Inability to have children due to age. The Hook-up culture. General unhappiness.
Women mostly get what they want because they are sellers in a sellers’ market. It’s not terribly surprising when people are unhappy when they get what they want. (Hence, the Chinese proverb.) Sometimes they fail to see that getting what they want has unintended consequences that they don’t want. Sometimes they want incompatible outcomes. They fail to see that getting one entails getting the other. Women (who are not a monolith but who all desire that the interests of women be realized) wanted sexual freedom. They got it. They’ve discovered that it has some consequences that they don’t like.
MBlanc,
“Women mostly get what they want because they are sellers in a sellers’ market.”
I doubt you can get many (or any) social scientists to agree with you. Pair bonding is a negotiating process. Much of western literature and film concerns women working to entice men into marriage. The ones showing men chasing women are much fewer (mostly chick lit).
Many scientists studying the current situation believe that the market power in relationships has tilted in favor of men. Since the terms of relationships (esp marriage) have shifted against men, their interest in playing is dropping. Hence the increasingly loud complaints by women that men won’t “man up” and marry them – and that men have the Peter Pan syndrome. Sour grapes.
For more about this see the For More Info section at the end of this post: the posts about research by Mark Regnerus (professor of sociology at U Texas-Austin), and his book.
“Feminism is something that women made happen”
Ha ha. Oh, that’s good. Even on a blog such as this, there is still this much naivety.
Look at who started feminism and who has had leadership roles in all branches of feminism. Find a common strain among those people and wake up.
John,
“Even on a blog such as this, there is still this much naivety.”
Just to be clear, that was said by a commenter. Comments here, as everywhere, range from brilliant to insane.
“Find a common strain among those people and wake up.”
The most common strain is that they are women. Some conservatives (see Dalrock’s posts about feminism in conservative churches). Most are liberal. Some are radical Left.
I wasn’t referring to you Larry. It was MBlanc’s naivety that gave me a chuckle.
I don’t know if my post delayed or not. I know it was made by a commenter: MBlanc. Feminism is much more corrosive and planned than just a grouping of women. There is a more common strain than even being women.
John,
“I know it was made by a commenter”
Just making sure! People often get confused about who is writing what.
“Look at who started feminism and who has had leadership roles in all branches of feminism. Find a common strain among those people and wake up.” “There is a more common strain than even being women.”
Sounds interesting, but I don’t understand. Can you explain a bit more?
Dworkin, Friedan, Steinem, Ginsburg….
John,
That’s not helping. They are all women. What is this “more common strain than even being women”?
Talk about a blast from the past. I hadn’t heard that song in forever. I think sometimes that I was lucky to grow up when I did. I had more fun as a kid, I played outdoors, and we played actual games like football and basketball wherever we could find the space to do it. (And yeah, I got dinged up and got stitches and everything.) I got into fights, and I got In Trouble, and the women were a lot prettier back then. I don’t recall seeing a fat girl in four years of college, and they dressed better, and wore nicer outfits, and you could talk to them. (Date them, even!) I can’t say my youth was well spent, maybe nobody’s ever was, but I honestly enjoyed at least some of it.
I watched Passengers and really liked it, and it was the most romantic movie I had seen in a long time, and they had to go out into space to have a romance. They had to go billions and billions of miles out in space to have courtship and romantic love. (Yeah, I know interstellar distance is more than just a few billion miles, but I’m channeling Carl Sagan here)
These kids got robbed. Do they even realize it? Yeah, I know I sound like the old man I am .
If you want a love song for modern times, maybe Mr Spock by Nerf Herder. The video is priceless.
I had a PhD level female clinical psychologist tell me that in relationship’s women are looking for access to resources.
To paraphrase, not for love, for money .
Sven,
Romantic marriage is a modern and western invention. Even so, there has always been an exchange implicit in it. As the adage goes, the institutions of western society were built on low but solid ground. We see this even in Pride and Prejudice, the dawn of the modern romance novel. In this scene, Jane is talking with Elizabeth about Liz’s engagement to Mr. Darcy.
Jane is an angel, so Elizabeth can speak honestly to her – and Jane will believe that she is kidding.
Larry, I fear you have got Jane Austen quite wrong. Nothing to be ashamed of, most readers and most commentators do. The point of Elizabeth’s comment is ironical. It is exactly not that she is speaking honestly to one of the few to whom she can. She speaks like this to Jane because she knows Jane will understand the humor, and realize that she does not mean what she says literally. The irony is typically double edged. Its amusing, it shows Elizabeth in the usual light of intelligent and penetrating and with a proper sense of values.
But it also continues the theme which is announced in the opening sentences of the novel. These should be read over and over again and the implications of every word grasped. Austen was an extraordinary genius. To create what she intended, she had to invent a whole new technique, the use of the omniscient narrator, coupled with a way of describing events and actions which gives implicit comment on them, and she used it with such mastery and economy that it is never visible unless one looks under the hood. Unlike Flaubert, where despite the brilliance, one frequently sees the machinery, checks oneself and finds oneself saying, ah, yes, that’s how he did it.
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families, that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.
She wrote by repeated drafts, sitting at a table in a public room, and so positioned as to be able to slide her work under something and conceal it when others entered. We may conjecture that most of it was written and rewritten off-line, and then quickly set on paper when there was time and temporary privacy. And it paid. No-one reads nowadays in the way that what she wrote demands. Notice in this opening, he is ‘in possession’, and so must be ‘in want’ of something which is regarded as another possession. The metaphor of property applied to human relations. He in turn is regarded as ‘rightful property’. But notice what comes next: ‘some one or other’. It doesn’t much matter which….
In different hands it would have fallen into bitterness, or into a romantic story. But she is not writing either.
Now in case you think this is not ironical at all, and that the author is just describing with a straight face the way the world is, read on. Because what she next gives us is the kind of marriage and relationship that results from such attitudes, and her final comment at the end of the chapter is devastating.
What you are reading is the double vision. It looks both ways, sees both aspects. She is recording the way society, or part of it, is, but she is not endorsing it, and the theme of the book is how to preserve human values while living in it. Look at the way Mrs Bennet defines her task in this first chapter. Look at Mr Collins, his proposal to Elizabeth, and Elizabeth’s reaction to her friend’s accepting him, and the light that casts on the social institution of marriage as it was then. The irony and the even tempered recovery from it are quite savage. Its in many of the other books too.
The book is not the story of Elizabeth and Darcy. Its about the choices facing people in a society where the attitudes ironically summarized and by implication condemned in the opening sentence apply, and its about the struggle to maintain human values while having no alternative but to live, somehow, in that society. The fact that the author can write ironically and feel confident of finding understanding readers gives an important clue to her attitudes. Her values are shared, and decency is possible. The society is seen as flawed but not despicable or irretrievably corrupt. It has good and bad people.
But to understand her, you have to read slowly and think about every word, in a way no-one is taught to nowadays.
henik,
A story is a subjective thing. There is no way to ask the author what she meant, and each of us has their own interpretation of the characters and events in the story. Elizabeth’s statement perfectly matches the predominate tone of P&P: irony. As Allan Bloom says in his essay about it …
Elizabeth would have to be more than human – as Jane is – not to be moved by the splendor of Pemberley and the prospect of being its mistress. That Jane Austin has her character so well grounded gives P&P much of its power.
That’s not true of all women. Money means nothing to me. I will take love honestly and lolalty over money any day – I can make my own money.
Debra,
“I will take love honestly and lolalty over money any day”
Yep. That’s why the divorce rate is so high. The relationship model of marriage leads to transitory relationships. My guess is that for many 21st C women, that will mean never being married or divorce (i.e., lots of affairs, followed by celibacy – and cats). Dalrock has written much about this. For example, see this post.
It’s hard to be romantic in a society where the law is hung like a perpetual sword of Damocles over you.
Heck, even being taller than a woman and asking her out for a date on campus can become grounds for expulsion and criminal charges.
Refer here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/student-found-to-have-violated-title-ix-by-asking-another-student-on-a-date/
Compound that with how false accusations can completely destroy a man’s reputation, career and relationships with little to no repercussion for the female accuser, the pervasiveness of the Duluth model throughout the justice system that views all males as perpetrators in criminal activities and how the family courts intend to castrate and enslave men through exorbitant alimony and child support payments, and we still have people wondering why romance is dead?
I don’t think romance is coming back for a long time Larry. What most people don’t understand is that the rampant misandry in society has revealed the true nature of women; it’s big data on the females of the human species and a good number of men are waking up to how cold, Machiavellian and uncaring the average woman really is to a man’s suffering and woes.
Women have always veiled their low opinion of men as workhorses and utilities behind romance and love, and now, a growing segment of men are beginning to view them in a similarly objectified way; as incubators with expiry dates.
Laugh,
I recommend reading the court transcript. The National Review misrepresents it as “simply one student asking another student out on a date.” The offense was persistent stalking, which seems well-supported by the evidence.
The Court filing was over the severity of the sentence, alleging that the 4 year suspension was excessive vs. other penalties in similar cases. From a quick skim, my impression is that this was a case of stalking a white girl while black.
If this is true, its a genuine Grade A American cultural crisis. That is, if its true that men and women in America are really coming to regard each other simply as rather unpleasant means to necessary ends in the way and on the scale suggested. It really means the end of the family in the form that has been the basis of social organisation in both America and the West generally, and its hard not to see it as the precursor of massive cultural and social decline.
Its the point Larry has been making for some time: if its true, we are wandering into the unknown without a compass.
And if you thought it could not get any worse…
“Mizzou official: Asking a smaller woman on a date violates Title IX“
Real,
I recommend reading the court filing. The College Fix misrepresents it as one student asking another student out on a date. The offense was persistent stalking, which seems well-supported by the evidence. That may or may not be actionable, but it is “not asking someone for a date.”
The Court filing was over the severity of the sentence, alleging that the 4 year suspension was excessive vs. other penalties in similar cases. From a quick skim, my impression is that this was a case of stalking a white girl while black.
Consider this a field report of sorts…
I am Gen X, divorced, no children. In my 40’s now and find sex and female companionship with millennial women easy to come by.. In other words, I get what I want from women without the management hurdles involved in maintaining a monogamous long term relationship with today’s American woman. I don’t use the word “management” lightly. The demands, entitlement and fickleness of today’s “empowered” western woman are a sight to behold. “Princess complex” is probably an apt description. And yes, I speak in generalities. “All Women Are Like That” (AWALT) is a spectrum after all.
But here’s the thing, I want a child. So I have entered into a new relationship with a woman. It’s monogamous. But only because I wish to have a child with her. I see no reason to otherwise enter into a monogamous relationship – let alone marriage – with a woman in today’s western world. The risk is simply to great. Sword of Damocles indeed.
To Laugh’s point, while I welcome love and romance in my relationships, only an “incubator” with an acceptable expiration date will do for a long term relationship and/or marriage. And if we marry, I will insist on a prenup. In today’s brave new world of gynocentrism gone wild, it seems the best approach for my self-preservation.
The majority of my divorced Gen X friends have traded in the rules from the old books for the new, which can only be done once you see the world through a Red Pill lens. And some who are still married are at least finding their balls and changing the game for themselves within their marriage.
I cannot speak to the millennial men and younger. My experience is that most men need to feel some pretty harsh pain before they shed their Disney illusions. Too much societal programming and biological hard wiring to overcome otherwise.
Miguel,
If you don’t mind, how did you meet you your current partner? The dating scene for one in his 40s seems daunting, to me.
BA, you may be pleasantly surprised. It depends on what you bring to the table of course. I’m lucky in that I have a full head of hair. The rest I’ve earned – in great shape, great career, conversant on most topics, etc.
I will say that for a man in his 40’s, he needs to maximize his physical appearance to look healthy and youthful. Do this, and you’ve already set yourself apart form 80% of men in their 40’s and beyond. Google HIIT (high intensity interval training) and intermittent fasting. These two things will literally transform your body and your life.
Beyond that, social proof is very important for women. It could be your job title, your standing in the community, etc. Something that demonstrated to a woman that you are a man of value.
And then, assuming you get the date, you need to know “game” and “frame”. Women travel in a much more emotional /hormonal world than we do as men, therefor its critical you understand their behavioral triggers to get the most out of a relationship with them. Google The Rational Male for more on this. And IT DOES WORK. “Frame” simply refers to you not getting sucked into a woman’s emotional storms and transient views of the world. As they say, “Be the oak”.
It may seem daunting to date in your 40’s but there is no reason why you can’t be dating a woman 10 years younger than you with the above put into practice and internalized. I’m living proof.
I have more luck meeting and dating younger woman in real life (they don’t know your age until they’ve already decided they want you). That said, I met my current g/f on Bumble, one of the better online dating apps out there. Just know, that with online dating apps, your age will be more of a handicap as women tend to filter out men more than 5 years their senior.
Go get it BA!
Miguel,
“And if we marry, I will insist on a prenup.”
Good luck with that, does that trump wedding vows? This shit contract?
“I, ___, take thee, ___, to be my wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part, according to God’s holy ordinance; and thereto I pledge thee my faith [or] pledge myself to you.”
So, it’s a business venture. What would your contract say?
Ron, I’m having a hard time understanding where you are coming from. You say “Good luck with that”. Do you imply it’s unenforceable? That a woman won’t agree to it? That it’s taints the institution of marriage?
What taints the institution of marriage is that 70%+ of divorces are initiated by women, the vast majority of whom state “general dissatisfaction” as the cause.
A prenup is simply a smart insurance policy. Love ain’t got nothing to do with it.
Miguel,
I was thinking of the kid you want. I’m well aware of the 70% problem.
Larry,
“This is our society.”
I know, I see what you speak of every day in beautiful downtown Coatesville, Pa. Not much left of a once thriving city.
Towns on the Brink-Coatesville;
http://www.mainlinetoday.com/Main-Line-Today/July-2015/Towns-on-the-Brink-Coatesville/
The Lynching of Zachariah Walker
http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-3DB
Ron,
I suggest you read the transcript. This incident has little in common with the histories you’re posting.
Ron, still not sure I know what you mean. Are you referring to custody? Alimony? Fertility?
Miguel,
I’m talking old school, living up to the sh!t contract, love and the family unit. The modern impossible dream.
You know a movie I would like to see? A male conservative writer, who churns out pieces like this for a living, wakes up in an unfamiliar room. He finds himself in the body of a modern-day college student. In order to break the curse and return to his own life, he has to have real, “meaningful” sex within…oh, six months. Will he show the younger generation everything they’ve been doing wrong, or be stuck there forever?
Jaquio,
“A male conservative writer …has to have real, “meaningful” sex within”
A conservative, male or female (conservative thought does not come in genders) would tell you that sex is a biological act, necessary for survival of the species. Like breathing is for the individual. It is done by simple animals and people. Meaning comes from relationships between people, and between people and their society.
I can recommend some simple introductory books for you to begin learning about such things.
Well, men are the pursuers in traditional romance (and in non-traditional arrangements as well), so if traditional romance is dying, it’s because the men who are practicing it are not meeting with success. As an unmarried man who has tried to find a marriage partner, it is much more difficult to find a receptive and attractive woman than conservative writers would have you believe. Bringing the “old books” to navigate the new landscape is a losing proposition.
I mention this primarily because you seem to be interested in solutions to society’s ills, and hold an unfavorable view of MGTOW and “screw everything” libertarianism. However, if this post is simply a chronicle of society’s inexorable decline, then I find no fault with it.
I met my wife in church in a very small conservative denomination. We have been married far longer than our peers. We are religious.
The divorce statistics are probably a lie used to normalize homosexualism and pedophilia (“tu quoque”).
You and your wife can stay married. I don’t think most women go into marriage for cynical reasons. They want a family and a husband. It’s biology.
I guess the point of my post is that it is possible to get married and stay married despite all the laws that incentivize divorce and the divorce industry. However, it’s tough to find a marriageable woman, so don’t beat yourself up if you can’t. MGTOW is a rational option. Jesus and Paul said it was better not to marry for the sake of the kingdom. I have no idea whether or not you’re religious.
Christian leadership is completely delinquent on addressing this problem, IMO. I’ve heard maybe 1 sermon on divorce in my time on this planet and no sermons on gender roles.
Bryce,
The divorce statistics are not lies. Get out of your bubble.
“It’s biology.”
Modern society has taught us that much of what we thought was women’s hardwired behavior was in fact the result of “nurture” (aka upbringing or indoctrination, as you prefer). Gender behavior, like most of civilization, is a social construct.
Which is why spinning the dials on the controls, based on ideology instead of careful testing, is so dangerous. With the power of tech and modern governments, we’re driving a supersonic jet, not a playmobile. Mistakes can have ugly consequences.
Jaquio,
“men are the pursuers in traditional romance”
I don’t believe that is true. In some novels and films, the men is the pursuer. In others, the woman is. Or they journey to marriage together. Look at John Wayne’s films, for example – with a woman chasing him (eg, Hitari, Rio Bravo, Angel and the Badman, Tall in the Saddle).
How many books are there telling men how to “catch” and marry a woman, vs vice versa? How many stories describe dads teaching boys how to catch a wife, vs vice versa?
“it is much more difficult to find a receptive and attractive woman than conservative writers”
You must be reading work by very old guys. Most of what I read, and publish here, is about women uninterested in “traditional” marriage, and uninterested in any kind of marriage until they are in their late 20s or early 30s.
“if this post is simply a chronicle of society’s inexorable decline”
NOTHING on the FM website is about our inexorable decline. “It is all about choice.”
Read the link I posted. We’re told by the media that half of all marriages end in divorce. At the link, statisticians have shown that the number may be as high as 30% but definitely not 50%.
The media lies about statistics all the time. This is not controversial.
Bryce,
I don’t believe Wall Street analysts about securities (I was in that biz for 30 years), and certainly not for other fields.
“We’re told by the media that half of all marriages end in divorce.”
I don’t know who this “media” is, or what that number means. Divorce is one of the most heavily studied social science issues.
* Analysts have shown that the number varies by age cohort, ethnicity, education – and other factors. These have all changed over time, so the divorce rate will have changed even if the core propensity for divorce did not.
* There are many ways of stating divorce rates. People often confuse the odds of first marriage divorce with the overall divorce rate (including subsequent marriages) – which is higher. There is also the odds of divorce in some period (ie, first 5 years). These produce very different numbers. So there the estimated divorce rate for millennials in the first ten years of marriage (from memory, probably running in the low 40%s) with the lifetime divorce rate of a married boomer experiencing at least one divorce (from memory, probably in the low 60%s).
* Divorce rates have been falling for poorly understood reasons. The decline in marriage rates and shift to cohabitation are probably big contributors. Note that the later increases the key number – the odds of breakup (ie, family disruption, esp for children).
Bottom line: nobody is lying to you. Life is complex.
Follow-up to Bryce,
That was probably too much info. Here’s the brief version.
“We’re told by the media that half of all marriages end in divorce.”
These stories are probably looking at the Boomers generation, for which we now can make moderately accurate estimates. The lifetime divorce number (percent of marriages ending in divorce) will be in the low 60%s. Estimates are still climbing due to their unprecedented high rate of divorces after 50 years of age.
The explosion of MGTOW and “red-pilling” is a natural reaction to our toxic-gynocentric culture. Men are waking up and refusing to marry, as long as the unjust family courts are allowed to rob men of their property, children, and future earning potential. Science is currently working on fertilized-human eggs and artificial wombs without the input and contribution of women. This will be a game changer and will effectively render women obsolete. Men will finally be able to have their OWN children without losing them to the mother. Supermodel sex-bots are also on the horizon. Frankly, I can’t wait.
Tom,
I won’t say you are wrong. But that’s a low-level response. History is made by men who fix society, not retreat from it. I suggest you read these posts to get larger goals.
TJ,
Call me old-fashioned but your idea looks horrible to me. A fast car in the garage, Dog for companionship, adoption, and Mrs. Palmer on the side would be my choice.
Fixing modern women/men minds and the courts will be up to what’s left of Conservative values and the next generation (I don’t see my generation getting it done).
Any man – who marries any woman – for any reason whatsoever – in today’s United States of America is a complete and total moron.
A follow-up to Coolio’s comment:
Bettina Arndt is an Australian sex therapist, journalist, and author (see Wikipedia). This video by her is well worth watching in full. She is brilliant and knowledgeable, but clueless — unaware she is giving the most brutal possible warning to men about marriage today. She admits the widespread nature of the problem and its gravity. But she can’t give the slightest hint to men about how to avoid this common problem, or deal with it when it happens. She just says “women hold all the cards in marriage.” Oh, well.
“Today’s sex starved husbands.”
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