Update: for more current information about the Texas killings, see Update about the killings in Texas, perhaps another crack in an Army near the breaking point.
This problem has deep roots, which the military knows and has taken steps to address. To learn about this, please see the following from the FM reference page: An Army near the Breaking Point – studies & reports, section I — Articles about the Army’s fitness, and the mental and physical fitness of its people:
News and DoD reports:
- “Defense Task Force on Domestic Violence“, Defense Task Force on Domestic Violence, 28 February 2001 — Last report of the 3 year project.
- “U.S. Army Isn’t Broken After All, Military Experts Say“, Fox News, 19 March 2008. This provides data suggesting that the US Army is in better shape than many believe. Of special note are the data they show in these nine charts.
- “Military check-up time“, Michael O’Hanlon, Washington Times, 4 May 2008 — O’Hanlon presents data that refutes widely held perception that the Army is breaking under the strain of the long war.
- “Reagan and the draft“, Lawrence Korb, Washington Times, 16 May 2008 — A powerful rebuttal to Michael O’Hanlon’s Washington Times article of 4 May.
- “Invisible Wounds of War“, RAND (2008) — “Psychological and Cognitive Injuries, Their Consequences, and Services to Assist Recovery”
- “America’s Medicated Army“, Time, 5 June 2008 — About the growing use of anti-depressants by US army personnel. Also see my post about this article.
- “Prescription Drugs and the U.S. Military — The War…on Drugs“, Melody Petersen, Men’s Health magazine, current issue (undated) — “Our Military is fielding one of the most heavily medicated fighting forces in the history of war. Our soldiers aren’t just fighting our enemies, they’re often also fighting their prescriptions.”
- “Alcohol abuse by GIs soars since ‘03“, USA Today, 19 June 2009
Posts on the FM website, mostly about DoD reports:
- 28 Articles: a guide to a successful insurgency against America, 7 May 2007 — About harassment and rape of women soldiers.
- “VA testing drugs on war veterans” – The Washington Times and ABC News, 18 June 2008
- Is post-traumatic stress disorder more common now than in past wars?, 17 July 2008
- Suicides skyrocket among US soliders, 26 March 2009
- Background info to the “U.S. Soldier Opens Fire on Comrades” incident, 12 May 2009
- Did exposure to “burn pits” in Iraq and Afghanistan harm our troops?, 1 July 2009
- Another important story about out army nearing the breaking point, 28 July 2009 — about the Ft Carson killings.
An update — summary of the above
The 15 articles listed above discuss the following subjects:
- Domestic violence, rape (2)
- Is the military breaking? (3; two yes, one no)
- Psychological and head injuries (3; only 1 is exclusively about PSTD)
- Excessive prescription of drugs by DoD (2)
- Alcohol abuse (1)
- VA testing drugs on soldiers (2)
- Incidents of violence (2)
Afterword
Please share your comments by posting below. Per the FM site’s Comment Policy, please make them brief (250 word max), civil and relevant to this post. Or email me at fabmaximus at hotmail dot com (note the spam-protected spelling).
I just fired an employee because of attitude problems with co-workers and customers. I am lucky, as an employer, because I had many apps on my desk. It took only two days to find a suitable replacement. I doubt this is the case with our military- it is almost impossible to get fired from a government job unless you kill somebody. And I do not think that the best and the brightest are pushing for jobs in the military. It is not that standards are being lowered so much as it is that standards are not being enforced. This guy should have been dismissed, or at least engaged early on. But how do you analyze a psychiatrist?
Important note
Please post any comments about “Sudden Jihad Syndrome” on the new post expressly about SJS: Update about the killings in Texas, perhaps another crack in an Army near the breaking point.
This incident was clearly isolated. Yes, there were other examples of attacks like this, but they were not connected to this one, and they are very rare. This is not, in any way, a demonstration of an army at the breaking point, or an additional crack.
I find the repeated snark that people disagreeing with your analysis should volunteer instead of pointing out the opportunism and error in this post to be unprofessional. This post was a specific argument that was irresponsible to make about this event. When so many make the same criticism, and the author denies it rudely over and over again, it’s clear which version is more fair. Our Army is doing amazingly well, given the challenges it faces. Our medical service to vets is imperfect, and always will be, but it is not atrocious in my experience.
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FM post about the problem in the military gets the same response. By you logic, that shows that these media reports and DoD studies are false. That strikes me as an odd way of thinking. I’ll stick with the expert analysis.
Most of these swarms are in my experience wrong. This site has seen dozens of them. Denying the recent antarctc cooling, denying the NASA research about the influence of the solar cycle, in 2007 denying that there was a housing crash, in early 2008 denying we were in a recession, denying the US government-funded research showing that torture does not work well. It’s a long list, all of which suggests that your theory is incorrect.
(3) “were not connected to this one”
They appear to have a common cause, which is fracturing loyalty to the US and its military, under stress of our long wars against Islamic nations.
(4) “or an additional crack.”
On what basis do you say this? The 2 or 3 explicit attacks are almost certainly representative of a larger number of people making smaller and less obvious acts of rebellion, and a still larger number of disaffected not yet acting on their feelings. The overall fraction is probably still tiny, but could grow.
(5) “This post was a specific argument”
No. It was posted early, and described as background information from a “reference page.” The content of the links covered a wide range, most of it obviously unrelated to this incided. The “argument” existed in your own mind, as shown by neither you nor anyone else quoting any text to support this bizarre theory.
At this point, the issue is becoming more about FM than Ft Hood or fractures in our stressed Army. Hope the real FM comes back soon.
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FM reply: Personally I’m hoping for comments by people who read the post, rather than reply on their belligerent guessing as to what it says. I’m increasingly of the opinion that Glenn Reynolds, the Instapundit, has the right idea — no comments.
PTSD my ass, the man was a known problem that the powers that be failed to deal with due to political correctness concerns. The only question here, is was the MAJ not “nuts” all along or not, but whether he was a muslim all along.
People need to learn how to stay in their lane.
‘I fear you’re wasting your breath. There are simply those who know in the hearts (maybe God whispered it to them) that this is all part of the continuum of Muslim perfidy’
Just watched an interview on FOX with a colleague of Hasan from Walter Reed who had personally seen this guy get into verbal fights with other soldiers about how evil the US was for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not once or twice but repeatedly. I guess you could call FOX God, but I wouldn’t.
BTW, the snark involved in many of the comments can almost certainly be attributed to people finding that everywhere they turn, stupid complicated obfuscations are being touted by the media rather than just report the simple fact that this was an angry muslim murdering American soldiers for jihad purposes. The moment I heard the guys name, I knew it would turn out that way, and every single piece of evidence I’ve heard since has proven that it was the case. There is not a shred of evidence pointing at PTSD. You have to have had TRAUMA to have post-traumatic shock. And this pansy spent his whole life in an office.
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FM reply: There is not much evidence pointing to domestic violence, over-medication, or exposure to pollutants — a few of the other subjects covered in this “reference page.” IMO I attribute these comments to the aggressive denial of problems, as they are identical in tone to those responding to other posts in this series about problems in the Army. Fortunately, DoD has a higher level of concern about our people in uniform, and is responding to these problems. As they will to whatever we learn about this event.
Also, I’ve found from follow-up conversations that many of the people posting comments during swarms have not read the post. They hear about it elsewhere and swarm to post comments. No need to read, as they already know what it says. It’s a too-common phenomenon on the Internet.
TO: Fabius Maximus
Your analysis gets cut up pretty badly with the application of Ockam’s Razor.
Regards, Chuck(le) [The simplest explanation is most likely the truth.]
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FM reply: I recommend reading the post before making these nutty comments. As mentioned many times (including the first line) this was a “reference page” posted as “background.” The subjects mentioned cover a wide range, including domestive violence, exposure to chemicals, and over-medication. So there is no implied theory, so nothing to be wrong. This may be a new problem, which if so supports the title “an Army near the breaking point”.
As for the truth, I’ll wait for official reports.
TO: Andrew Lale, et al.
RE: Heh (Reprised)
I suspected as much. And the Army KNEW this guy had ‘issues’. But did NOTHING about it because of his religion. And look what it got them.
Used to be, before the Army went ‘PC’, if you had any connection or showed any indication of having ‘conflicts’ between your position and the Army mission, you were put on the ‘back burner’. Now, Muslims in the Army are apparently, given a ‘pass’. Even if they manifest such behavior as Hasan’s.
Regards, Chuck(le) [Thank you Bill Clinton…..]
RE: Army Installation ‘Security’
It’s easy enough to shoot up an Army base. Despite the fact that many of the people on the base are trained in the use of weapons, NOBODY you see, save the Military Police, have them readily at hand. It’s like going to a college campus. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
[The best way to survive a near ambush is immediate and violent action against the ambushing force. — Infantry axiom on survival on the battlefield]
P.S. Too bad for you if you don’t have weapons at hand…..
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FM reply: Note that a civilian police officer shot the attacker.
Of course you are not ‘making an argument’–that would be too honest. Instead, you are using the well-tried techniques of supressio veri/suggestio falsi to suggest your favored explanation. That your explanation (‘an Army near the breaking point’) does not fit the facts, is, well, just too bad.
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FM reply: What point are you attempting to make, as your comment makes no sense?
You appear not to have read these posts — or even the titles. They describe a wide range of problems – domestic violence, over-medication by DoD, exposure to pollutants, etc. Most are of course unrelated to this event, just showing increase stress on the military. It’s clearly listed as background from a reference page.
FM, thanks for the reply to my question in 30. That is clearer.
I would agree with you that there are a number of factors in play that weaken the common bonds – that make us Americans, create a high level of social trust, and allow the country function. A quick list would include extraordinary large fraction of first and second generation immigrants, systematic unwillingness to teach English and encourage assimilation in schools, and a focus on and celebration of hyphenated-everything group identify, and hence identity politics.
This is creating fractures in the society. I can see that these problems would be reflected in the Army, although my impression is that the Army has done an outstanding job overall, so far, in overcoming this.
I think in summary the argument is current policy –> fractured society, which in the limit –> fractured Army.
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FM reply: Looking through the posts about these problems, you’ll notice that a connecting theme is that DoD has responded quickly and strongly to them. As they will to the issues to this event, whatever they are.
FM reply: “Are we learning much about this from sources other than the mainstream news? If so, any examples?”
Fox News is “not a legitimate news organization”, for starters, and their reporting on this incident was quite thorough.
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FM reply: A wickedly funny reply! Thanks for posting it!
Mel Gibson once referred (admiringly) to Michael Moore’s technique as “elliptical editing”.
What we have here is Fabius doing very much the same thing. He makes a brief introduction, but one intended to lead you in a certain direction by the subtle slant of it, and then produces a number of stories and posts. Call it “elliptical linking”.
It also is has its roots in basic editing. What you see previous to something influences your interpretation of the following. The intent from FM is to enforce a conclusion, but when pressed about it, FM response is an obtuse: “What do you mean? I’m not saying anything. You’re making it up in your nutty little head, silly.” {FM note: although given in quotes, I never said this.}
THEN, in an update he refers us to a post called “Update about the killings in Texas, perhaps another crack in an Army near the breaking point.”
NOPE! Fabius wasn’t trying to make any assertions here, folks. You obviously came here with your own pre-conceived notions’ don’t blame him! I have to give him credit, though, he is talented at what he does.
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FM reply: What conclusion? That this was domestic violence? Exposure to chemicals? You give neither specifics about your theory nor any evidence. Looks like you are the one being “elliptical” here.
A post saying this is “background information” from a “reference page” — then showing a very wide range of material — seems unlikely to be giving a theory, IMO. It’s a weird inference.
“in an update he refers us to a post called “Update about the killings in Texas, perhaps another crack in an Army near the breaking point”
Yes, as news came in I moved from giving background information to some tentative conclusions and analysis. That’s how the process works. What’s your point?
This ‘discussion’ is maddening, but it is just another example of the kind of crap that impedes any deeper understanding or resolution. Too many people these days have something to sell (an idea, a platform, a bias, a hate), and conversely are convinced that all others are just like them – pumping their product at the expense of truth and reason.
If the MSM reported that Obama had diarrhea, the left would somehow turn it into a health care issue and the right would say it proves he is a socialist.
My initial response to the news was “At an Army base? What went wrong?” and I suspect FM’s response was similar. This was clearly not what was supposed to be going on in the US military, it sure seems like non-cohesive behavior, and it is not the first recent incident of such, so it is worth investigating as to whether there is a trend or common element. That is what FM did.
He was not pumping an agenda. This site is about trends from all over the spectrum. So many respondents either do not get this or are resentful of it, because it is out of lockstep with their talking points.
On the issue itself, I have not heard enough about the reasons for this man being scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan. Was this a cynical old guard commander thinking “I’ll fix this whiny shrink.” or was his entire unit slated to rotate over to replace another medical unit?
Also not mentioned here was that the Army paid for his education, and he owed service for it, but (allegedly) wanted out without repaying a crushing debt, and had hired a military lawyer. Sound like (little data though) he was turned down and was increasingly troubled by his situation. I think the army needs to look seriously at their retention policies – keeping this one officer (of dubious loyalty) just cost them 13 servicmen dead.
TO: mattbnh
From comment #55: “My initial response to the news was “At an Army base? What went wrong?” and I suspect FM’s response was similar. This was clearly not what was supposed to be going on in the US military, it sure seems like non-cohesive behavior, and it is not the first recent incident of such, so it is worth investigating as to whether there is a trend or common element. That is what FM did. — mattbnh”
This was nothing more, nor anything less, than Virginia Tech-cum-Columbine High School massacre at an army installation. Lots of people think that an army base is a safe place. Nothing could be farther from the truth. And whereas many people on an army base know how to USE weapons. Darn few of them have weapons and ammunition readily at hand.
It’s like a college campus or high school, i.e., a shooting gallery.
“He was not pumping an agenda. — mattbnh”
Actually, Hasan, the alleged perp, was pumping both an (1) agenda AND (2) lead.
Regards, Chuck(le)
P.S. I hope YOU have the opportunity to address someone like Hasan on just such a very ‘personal’ level….sometime soon………I look forward to your report………should you survive the encounter.
Chuck Pelto wrote: “P.S. I hope YOU have the opportunity to address someone like Hasan on just such a very ‘personal’ level….sometime soon…..”
Thanks, that’s gracious. Wishing me death for my comment in support of Fabius. I hope you soon have an encounter with a reading specialist so that your comprehension can improve. Hopefully, before you post here again.
“He” = Fabius. Not Hasan.
Meanwhile your contribution to the discussion is to trivialize the incident, and to joke that a person you have never met should be on the receiving end of another one.
TO: mattbnh
mattbnh: “Thanks, that’s gracious. Wishing me death for my comment in support of Fabius.”
Where did I wish your ‘death’? If you know enough about English as a principle language, you’ll know I didn’t do that. Indeed, I wished your survival of an encounter with someone like the alleged Hasan. If only to hear your report….
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FM reply: I had the same impression as Mattbnh when reading your comment. That is the clear meaning of your words in comment #56:
You are wishing him to have contact with a killer.
P.S. As for ‘trivializing’ life in the military….contact me again once YOU’VE spent 27 years in the infantry. [God is alive….and airborne-ranger qualified. And so am I.]
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FM reply: People reading your words do not know who you are, just what you say.
Wow, quite a few folks with sand in their coffee this morning . . . I don’t think FM is the fifth columnist you’re looking for.
As some of the more calm commentators have posted, the issue seems to be why a guy with such obvious warning signs (of disloyalty at least, if not of “going postal”), was retained in an active position (counseling other soldiers no less) and was in line to be sent to a war zone.
Whether for reasons of “political correctness” or from a shortage of officers (I have no idea) either one is a problem in the Army, and contributes to the overall level of strain. Is this not obvious?
i woke up this morning to see the reality based community has joined the fray at the Fab Hole. I’m enjoying watching fabious put on his typical dodge, parry, twist/turn maneuvers he employs. anything but admit he made a mistake or he is wrong. don’t worry FM.. they’ll be gone soon and you can patch the holes to your echo chamber here.
From FM reply to #54: “Yes, as news came in I moved from giving background information to some tentative conclusions and analysis. That’s how the process works. What’s your point?”
I think his point was, “How dare you question the perfection of our wars?” I also think these guys like slow, considered and logical analysis about as much as a vampire likes garlic.
Congratulations swarmers! You just gave a guy who spends tons of time examining the true national interests of the USA, looking at the big picture and generally holding the center of a group of varied, hard-ass commenters, and you gave him a hard time for a whole day! Now he’s annoyed, but you haven’t really convinced him or anyone else of anything. Pat yourselves on the back.
P.S. I can’t help it if someone goes off the ‘deep end’ every now and then. In this instance, it looks to me for all the world to be THAT with Fabius Maximus. In this instance—at face value, applying Ockam’s Razor—seems to be the case.
atheist… you are part of the echo chamber here. FM has few real hard ass commentors because most of them realize he is a gas bag with a less than pro-american bias. he treats people that disagree with him with contempt.. the hard ass commentors simply give up trying to educate FM about how the world really works vs his somewhat idealistic (and unrealistic) perceptions of geopolitics.
From #67: “he treats people that disagree with him with contempt”
Dood are you kidding me? The guy has always dealt politely with me despite the fact that I disagree with him an a whole bunch of things. I’ve seen him deal with most people the same way. The only time I see him get harsher is when people refuse to think logically, or ignore facts, or keep repeating stuff… stuff like that. I have no idea where you’re coming from Steel Rain.
Clever FM. “Update: for more current information about the Texas killings,…”
Is just misdirection. A magic trick. Here is an on topic for you: “PTSD and the Endocannabinoid System“, M Simon, Power and Control, 10 April 2006.
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FM reply: What are you attempting to say here? Why is that a magic trick? What’s the relevance of this article?
Here is another: PTSD Pot Alcohol & Substance Abuse
You should also look up the work of Dr. Raphael Mechoulam, Faculty of Medicine, Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
Bottom line? Pot prohibition set back work on PTSD in America by 30 years. So much so that the work was done in Israel – because they care more about their soldiers than they care about the drug war. And there is a drug war in Israel. You can find out more about it by searching – Green Leaf Party Israel.
BTW long term PTSD is genetic. Short term every one gets it. Here is a mouse study that is interesting. Fear memories, the amygdala, and the CB1 receptor The Israelis are in process of repeating a similar study with rats.
Here is a bit on the Israeli Army and PTSD: Aftermath
Chuck,
I’m no atheist. God talks to me all the time. Or it could just be my mild schizophrenia.
atheist.. of course i was demonstrating hyperbole. FM doesn’t attack EVERYBODY the disagrees with him.. just people that prove him as intellectually dishonest. of course.. he dismisses them as being “wrong” but the is his self-delusional opinion.
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FM reply: Unlike you, I give quotes and evidence when stating my opinions. Not only have you cited no evidence in rebuttal, you have not even stated what you believe is incorrect about this post. Why should anyone take your remarks seriously? Why is this more than empty invective?
People have posted almost fourteen thousand comments on this site since its opening in November 2007 — 9 thousand comments in the past 12 months. Many of which are well-composed essays hundreds of words long. That reflects these people’s opinion of the dialog on this site, the most effective possible rebuttal to your opinion. I believe that results from my willingness to engage in debate. Often I’m wrong. The site is littered with my admissions of mistakes.
TO: M Simon
RE: Hearing That ‘Still Small Voice’
M Simon: “I’m no atheist. God talks to me all the time. Or it could just be my mild schizophrenia.”
I’ve asked myself that sometimes myself. However….oddly enough….that ‘still, small voice’ has screamed in my mind’s ear and saved my life: plummeting out of a black-night sky with a malfunctioning parachute and again in a ‘snit’ with an 18-wheeler one Wintery night on I25.
P.S. Sometimes I have to tell people…. [You’re just jealous because the voice only speaks to me.]
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FM reply: For those of you who skipped Sunday School, the reference is to 1 Kings 19 11-13 (King Jaems version):
FM… i’m not going to bother presenting evidence that you will ignore.. twist and turn or deny. it isn’t worth the time. you’ve demonstrated a pathological amount of self deception in this thread that proves it isn’t worth the mental energy. i’m satisfied that the majority here disagrees with you and your demonstrated lack of rationality. that’s all i need. i like to watch you fail. i don’t need to provide links.. you do enough to prove my point.
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FM reply: An elegant concession speech. Thank you.
I suspect you’re used to slower company than you’ll find on this site. Giving a blizzard of insults, then disappearing when called on them is a commonplace of frauds, posers, and bullies. None of which get respect here. When you explain what is wrong with this post, we can discuss it.
TO: Fabius Maximus
FM : “When you explain what is wrong with this post, we can discuss it.”
….any time now….
Regards, Chuck(le)
[Eschew obfuscation, anon!]
fabby.. you just proved my point.
I’m not a tuff guy in real life… I just play one on the internet.
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Re your claim that Glenn Reynolds misread this post and claimed you had rejected the terror angle and were pushing PTSD as the cause: please – this is unworthy of you. You clearly were favorably considering the PTSD theory, and wanted your readers to begin their education so that they might as well. Otherwise there is no reason for your reading list…nor any reason for the post. You’re an honorable man, and this piddling denial is just not worth the potential for damaged relationships and reputations.
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FM reply: While your claim to have telephathy is interesting, the evidence you cite is bizarre. The post cited 15 articles. Let’s look at their subjects (I’ve added this as an update to the post):
The 15 articles listed above discuss the following subjects:
* Domestic violence, rape (2)
* Is the military breaking? (3; two yes, one no)
* Psychological and head injuries (3; only 1 is exclusively about PSTD)
* Excessive prescription of drugs by DoD (2)
* Alcohol abuse (1)
* VA testing drugs on soldiers (2)
* Incidents of violence (2)
I frequently post reference pages whenever news hits about these problem areas. This is esp true about the problems in our military, as it is the only time Americans give a damn about them. Every time I do so I get dozens of hateful and ignorant emails, mostly either denying the problem or castigating those who draw attention to them. This is a common experience for people reporting these stories, unfortunately.
So there is a clear pattern here, whether you choose to see it or not.
FM: “This is just a different fracture than the ones described in the citations given.”
Had things to do this weekend so didn’t get back here to read up on how things were going, but now that I am I wanted to respond to this.
I agree this is a different fracture, but not one that has to do with the military. There are only about 3000 or so Muslims serving in out armed forces and if they are separating themselves from it in some way it is due to their religion and not our military nor its mission. If they have objections to fighting Islamic terrorists on religious grounds they should leave the service and certainly not join.
There is a facture, however, between archaic Islamic radicalism and a modern society. And it is only deepening.
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FM reply: Thanks, that’s an helpful perspective. Note that my basis for specultating that this was a different fracture was unrelated to the number of Muslims in the military. It’s perhaps a sign of deteriorating loyalty to the State. The increasing concern about gang infliltration is another indication of this. If this increases during the coming years, as predicted by many 4GW experts, it might be the most serious of all these fractures.
FM: “I frequently post reference pages whenever news hits about these problem areas. This is esp true about the problems in our military, as it is the only time Americans give a damn about them.”
Really? Such is the high regard people have for the military in this country that even the left has to claim to “support the troops.” Nobody believes them, but they feel they have to say it. Your first reaction to the berserk Islamist butchery was to attibute it a pet theory of yours and you’ve been dodging and weaving ever since. Give it up. The limb was sawed off a long time ago.
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FM reply: Quite a closed loop you display here. As I have shown above, there was no single cause suggested in this post — let alone no “pet theory”. Comments such as yours ignore this inconvenient fact. Then you dismiss the many posts on this site about the condition of our military with “nobody believes them” — again with no evidence or explanation.
No logic, no evidence. Why do you believe your comment should be taken seriously?