San Diego tries a bold experiment to fight crime

Summary: With many of our inner cities decaying – crime rising, police hated – San Diego tries a bold experiment. Their police will patrol less in high-crime areas. If successful, it might change the destiny of our cities. If unsuccessful, we will learn a lot so we can try something else.

“For extreme diseases, extreme methods of cure, as to restriction, are most suitable.”
— Advice in Amorphisms by Hippocrates (the father of medicine).  Short form: desperate times call for desperate measures.

By Tommy Lowe from Flicker.
By Tommy Lowe from Flicker.

Report: San Diego chief told his officers
not to patrol minority neighborhoods.

Law Enforcement Today, 7 September 2019.

“Political pressures in San Diego have led to police backing off and rebranding their gang units to be more community friendly. Since those decisions, gang violence has skyrocketed. But sources within the unit, who are not authorized to speak to the media but whom we personally know and have vetted, have told us that the drama goes even deeper.

“According to those sources, who must remain anonymous for obvious reasons, pressure from the progressive leaders in the California city has led the San Diego police chief {David Nisleit} to bow down and change how the department operates when it comes to crime, including a complete overhaul to the Gang Suppression Unit, which leaders say were stopping too many people of color. …

David Nisleit

“’He came to roll call and flat-out said he couldn’t have white officers stopping people of color. He also gave orders not to patrol minority neighborhoods in general,’ the sources told LET.

“{Also} a new 60-officer unit was formed to deal with the vast homeless population, pulling police off their normal proactive patrol. …

Gangs & police in San Diego

San Diego, like other major cities, has grappled with the increasing power and size of gangs. Its first gang unit began in 1972, when gangs emerged as a major problem in the African-American and Hispanic communities. The unit was disbanded around 1995 as part of the Department’s new focus on community policing.

Dissatisfaction with the results resulted in the creation of the Gang Suppression Team (GST) in 1996. Composed of uniformed officers, it focused on identifying gang members, gathering intelligence, monitoring hot spot locations and controlling the overt street activities of gangs. GST has retained the same basic form since then. See this report for details about San Diego, its gangs, and police efforts to control them.

The San Diego experiment

The San Diego Union-Tribune of September 2 has a more detailed and more neutral description of this experiment: “Gang crimes spike in San Diego.

“{The GST} patrolled neighborhoods where gangs were active. Though department leaders have credited the team with keeping gang crimes in check, the presence of the officers and their work was criticized by some neighborhood residents who complained of heavy-handed tactics and aggressive policing. Over the years some activists have called for disbanding the team. …

“In April, police leaders renamed the {GST} the Special Operations Unit and tasked it with responding to any source of violent crime across the city, including but not limited to violent gang activity. …There is still a group of detectives focusing on gang crimes exclusively, Takuechi said, while the officers in the former gang team now have a broader responsibility to assist investigating violent crimes throughout the city. He said the department was hopeful the team would be able to manage both tasks of investigating violent crimes and gang crimes. …

“Around the same time when the Gang Suppression Team was redeployed, the department also created the Gang Intervention Unit. Established in March, the group aims to work closely with community members and young people to prevent future gang violence. But they do not conduct the intensive street patrols that was the hallmark of the suppression team. The rise in gang crimes began in the same month that the Special Operations Unit was inaugurated, according to a month-by-month breakdown of gang incidents provided by police.

“A spate of shootings, retaliation attacks and other crimes has put the raw number of gang-related crimes this year far ahead of the number through July 2018. Police statistics show there were 463 gang-related crimes committed through June, up from 385 during the same period last year. That increase of 78 crimes {20%} is reflected in nearly all categories. There have been 10 gang homicides this year, compared with five at the same time last year. There were six gang homicides recorded in all of 2018. …

“{Recent killings} prompted community leaders to start “The Peace Movement: Let’s Live, Let’s Love,” unveiled at a news conference July 23. The plan detailed 10 steps that could be implemented by residents and city officials to promote peace in their communities. They include ensuring streets are well lit by reporting outages through the city’s Get It Done app, making sure young people participate in positive activities outside of school, and developing and sharing a phone list of local organizations that provide counseling, job training and other services.”

Gang violence in San Diego 2017 - 2019

This is good news

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said his dissent to the decision in New State Ice Co. vs. Liebmann that “a state may, if its citizens choose, serve as a laboratory; and try novel social and economic experiments without risk to the rest of the country.” (See Wikipedia.)

That applies even more so to a community. Its elected officials, speaking for its people, and civil servants can respond to intractable problems by thinking outside the box – trying bold new solutions. Like the crime problem in Hispanic and (especially) African-American communities. Many in these communities lionize their violent criminals and consider the police to be their enemies. This puts police in an ugly spot, both morally and operationally.

America has a long deep tradition of localism – aka community democracy. It is only right that minority communities get the opportunity to live life as they want to – with less presence by the police. Chief Nisleit is right, in a sense, to follow instructions from San Diego’s elected officials and give those communities that opportunity to take their own path. Given them what they want; see if they like it.

The situation is getting worse in some of our inner cities. I doubt anyone has better ideas.

What about the individuals who get hurt?

Reduced patrolling might more crime. What about the people who get hurt? This is an example of the inevitable conflict between community and individual rights. People do not have a right to police protection. That is a government service provided to the degree and manner chosen by their elected officials.

Let’s see how this works out.Let’s watch and learn.

Why is this happening?

In our time, the news cannot be understood unless you see the big picture. America is in the midst of institutional collapse. One after another, like falling dominoes. Welcome to ClownWorld, the final meme for America!

For More Information

Ideas! For shopping ideas, see my recommended books and films at Amazon.

Do Americans believe police treat them fairly? Do they want more or fewer police? See Gallup’s 2015 survey showing the answers by race. A 2019 Gallup survey provides more information about this.

What is life like for those living with America’s history of racism, baked as it was into America at the start. See “What It’s Like to Be Black in the Criminal Justice System” by Andrew Kahn and Chris Kirk at Slate, August 2015 – “These eight charts suggest there are racial disparities at every phase of the justice system.” There is good news: “The gap between the number of blacks and whites in prison is shrinking” by John Gramlich at Pew Research, April 2019.

To learn more about mass incarceration in America, see the website of The Sentencing Project. For detail see the FBI’s 2015 “Crime in the United States“.

If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. See all posts about racismabout crimeabout prison, about our criminal justice system, and especially these…

  1. Our prisons are a mirror showing the soul of America.  It’s not a pretty picture.
  2. More about the collapse of the American Criminal Justice System.
  3. Final thoughts about America’s Criminal Justice System.
  4. The Disgrace of Our Criminal {in}Justice System, and hints of reform in the air.
  5. Can We Fix Our Shameful Prisons? Why they should be, and why we might not do so.
  6. Since 9-11 we have less crime but more fear of crime. A win-win for our rulers!
  7. ImportantAmerica’s unspeakable problem: African-American’s crime rates.
  8. Harsh truths about mass incarceration in America.
  9. Ways to reform our criminal injustice system.
  10. Why do we lock up so many at great cost & for no gain?

Books about this vital subject

Prison Break: Why Conservatives Turned Against Mass Incarceration by David Dagan and Steven Teles (2016). Dagan is a journalist with a PhD in political science. Teles is an Assc. Professor of Political Science at Johns Hopkins.

Locking Up Our Own: Crime and Punishment in Black America by James Forman Jr. (2017). He is a Professor of Law at Yale. See my review.

Locked In by John F. Pfaff (2017) – “The True Causes of Mass Incarceration and How to Achieve Real Reform.” He is a Professor of Law at Fordham. See my review of this important book.

The Collapse of American Criminal Justice by William J. Stuntz (2011). He was a Professor of Law at Harvard. See some excerpts here.

The Collapse of American Criminal Justice
Available at Amazon.
Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration and How to Achieve Real Reform
Available at Amazon.

32 thoughts on “San Diego tries a bold experiment to fight crime”

  1. The American Muse

    If the police are not obligated to protect us then what the hell are they good for. The government taxes us, threatens us, if the police mistreat us we have to go through the government’s damn hoops. And to top it all off as a practical matter it’s a damn legal nightmare to defend yourself if you feel disinclined to be a part of the wonderful experiments of diversity.

    I’d love to respect and honor the police and rely on them to keep my neighborhoods safe, it’s what THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR. But if they won’t do that then Americans must take their safety into their own hands, and damn the government.

    1. The American Muse,

      “If the police are not obligated to protect us then what the hell are they good for”

      The Court ruled that there is no Constitutional right to police protection. The Constitution does not guarantee much, because it was written by practical men not given to guaranteeing things that can’t be guaranteed.

      Government services are provided as feasible, which is determined by elected officials and civil servants.

      As for the rest, please re-read the post – more slowly this time. How to provide police protection to communities who hate police and like the criminals who prey upon them? Despite your hysterics, it is a difficult question. No easy answers.

  2. The camp of The Saints written in 1973, about a world coming now.
    .
    .
    From Wikipedia:

    The Camp of the Saints is a 1973 French dystopian fiction novel by author and explorer Jean Raspail. A speculative fictional account, it depicts the destruction of Western civilization through Third World mass immigration to France and the West. Almost forty years after its initial publication, the novel returned to the bestseller list in 2011. On its publication, the book received praise from some prominent conservative French literary figures but has been dismissed by both French- and English-language commentators. It is controversial and has often been denounced as racist and xenophobic, especially due to its anti-immigration themes. The Southern Poverty Law Center has compared the book to The Turner Diaries, attributing its popularity with white nationalists to the plot’s parallels with the white genocide conspiracy theory.”

  3. I find the graphic amusing. A graphic that shows gang crimes significantly down from two years ago is headlined as showing an increase from last year. Not sure whether you pulled this from the local news or headlined it yourself.

    1. Heresolong,

      “Not sure whether you pulled this from the local news or headlined it yourself.”

      Not a mystery to those who read carefully.

      • The graph is adjacent to text from the San Diego Union-Tribune.
      • The graph has a credit on the bottom “Michelle Guerrero U-T.”
      • The title of the graph is similar to that of the U-T story.
  4. Ah yes we become Pakistan with our own mini Northwest Frontiers. Maybe we need to take a hard look at why we are allowing gangs and other criminal organizations run our inner cities. Hating the police is so fashionable today. Doesn’t matter what color the cop is (look at Philly) many of the peeps in these communities still act like douche bags. Snake Pliskin anyone?

    1. Gute,

      “Maybe we need to take a hard look at why we are allowing gangs and other criminal organizations run our inner cities.”

      It’s not a mystery. In America nothing can be done without support of the local community. Democracy, Federalism, localism, and all that. So the question is why so many communities prefer the criminals who prey upon them to the police.

      Note that integrating the police has not helped. More on that on request.

  5. The Man Who Laughs

    I am old enough to remember a documentary called The Police Tapes, which eventually became the partial inspiration for the TV show Hill Street Blues. I remember a senior police officer with two stars pinned to his shoulder saying ‘I am being paid to keep an army of occupation in the ghetto’.

    Occupations end. (Well except for Afghanistan, and even that will end one of these days.) Sometimes they end, as did the occupation of the American South, with some kind of reconstruction, however partial. Sometimes they end when the occupiers have had enough and just pack up and leave.

    I expect that San Diego, like Baghdad will have it’s Green Zone for Important People with controlled access and perimeter security that keeps the inhabitants more or less secure. Maybe they can start planning strategies for how they take back the valuable urban real estate they’ve ceded. Oil spots, anyone?

    It will be interesting to see how, if ever, the abandonment of major cities plays out in national politics.

    1. The Man,

      “the abandonment of major cities plays out in national politics”

      What are you talking about? This post refers to a change in policing at the request of the community’s elected officials. Neither of those things is consistent with an “abandonment.” Nor do I see anybody proposing such a thing, nor any evidence that it will become necessary (ie, conditions are not that bad, and they are far improved from the peak crime of the crack era).

      I know US politics consists largely of hysteria, but even so that’s rediculous.

      1. Perhaps you should check out the documentary ” seattSe is dying” if you don’t think abandonment of cities is an actuality.
        Typhus and leprosy, bubonic plague making comebacks in Los Angeles and approximately half of all auto accidents in l.a. are hit and runs per the Atlantic.
        Call it what you want, I call it abondonment, and so does Jill levoys in “ghettoside”( she’s card carrying liberal btw.)

      2. psanson,

        Your comments are not posted because you just make stuff up. I tried to point you to actual info, but you have no interest. Life is too short to bother with this.

        “if you don’t think abandonment of cities is an actuality.”

        First, it is not an “actuality.” It might happen in the future, but it is not happening now.

        Second, conditions could deteriorate a lot and still be better than in the recent past. US cities often had epidemics up to the 1950s. Crime rates are far below those of the 1980s. Poverty levels (absolute, not relative) are far lower than at any time in the past.

        As you note, there are bouts of hysteria about current conditions. But that is endemic in the US today. We live in the apocalypse-of-the-week environment. The end is always nigh. We love it. I suggest ignoring it unless the info comes from an actual expert.

        Re: typhus

        Typhus has appeared occasionally in the US forever. In the 20th C, as now, usually centered in immigrants. Conditions are not suitable for broad typhus epidemics (true even before modern medicine). See this article to learn something.

  6. Let’s say you live within a few blocks of a chaotic, festering inner city mess that law enforcement has given up on. They have stopped trying to arrest bad guys, who are growing ever bolder.
    Add to that, Cops have no duty, at all, to protect your enclave of very law-abiding citizens. You and your neighbors are explicitly on your own no matter what happens. If a criminal mob attacks your fence line… don’t even bother to call. Deal with it yourself, somehow, and if you are still alive when the authorities meander along to the scene, they should arrest you for having a firearm that you used saved your life?
    Gun control = Cops punish anyone who would stop criminals. iows Cops = Criminals.when chaos takes hold.

    Pro hint: 30 round mags, a night vision scope, and a good suppressor are the things you would give anything to have if ever things took that turn.

    Or am I missing something?

    1. Rum,

      “Or am I missing something?”

      You’re just a typical America, who looks at a situation and interprets it with max hysteria. That doesn’t make for clarity of vision. That’s why the news media reports everything as a crisis. It’s what we want.

      “They have stopped trying to arrest bad guys, who are growing ever bolder.”

      When typing that, why didn’t you think “that’s nuts, I should re-read.” The news stories don’t say that. The police are patrolling less aggressively, and (perhaps) stoped the San Diego version of “stop and search” — which is rare in the US. San Diego has a relatively small police force, and has compensated with rougher policing.

      “Cops have no duty, at all, to protect your enclave of very law-abiding citizens.”

      This just in: America is a democracy. Some communities are asking for less aggressive policing, which is their right. Nobody is “not protecting” anything. Nor are they cutting protection of “your enclave of law-abiding citizens.”

      “they should arrest you for having a firearm that you used saved your life?”

      You’re reading too much NRA fiction.

      “Pro hint:”

      Wow. All that NRA propaganda has had a big effect on you. The odds of that gear being useful are less than microscopic. Safer driving, keeping your vaccines current, and a better diet will be 10kx more effective in improving your life. Also, lots of research indviates that guns reduce your life expectancy (eg, accidents and increased odds of successful suicide) far more than they help unless you live in a high-crime zone (which I doubt).

  7. Indeed, I live in an enclave of zero violent crime and ultra high gun ownership. Which comprises in our minds another reason to doubt the value of strict gun laws.
    I have read the studies re gun violence. They always miss the main thing. That is, the guns in my house and my neighborhood never become violent. I am not the least bit afraid of them.
    BTW, anyone serious about shooting sports these days badly wants a suppressor on every piece they own. They really do save hearing. And night vision… the thing speaks for itself.
    Regarding the NRA: Left/progressives should be grateful that they have so far stopped them from passing legislation that would be a disaster that the left/progs would 100% have to own.
    Because non-compliance would be epic. Police chiefs and Sheriffs telling the law passers to go eff themselves and announcing “Sanctuary Zones” regarding gun laws.
    Have you ever been to Wyoming?

    1. Rum,

      “That is, the guns in my house and my neighborhood never become violent.”

      Do you believe that all gun owners know if their guns will “become violent” (ie, accidental discharge, used for suicide, or stolen by criminals)? Or are you a super-special person?

  8. One does not have to be a special person to never have an AD or leave your guns unsecured. It is a matter of intent and follow thru. Somehow, whole communities seem to get it right for decades where I live. And laws passed in far away places have nothing to do with it.

      1. You are very bright, well read , and usually very open minded but on the particular issue of guns ,you are delusional.

        The CDCs number for how many times guns prevent crime annually is 500,000- 3 million.

        You never/ almost never hear the media say anything good about guns.
        Yet and still support for gun control is much lower now than the 60’s, the 2nd amendment is the one victory conservatives have over the last fifty years.

        Would you be one of the people who says the war on drugs has failed?

        People who say the ban on drugs hasn’t worked seem to think banning guns will be more effective. Why?

        Any white guy worth his salt and with 15 bucks can make a slam fire shotgun from things freely available at the hardware store.
        Will it be pretty? No
        Could I kill 20 people with it , no sweat ? You bet.
        It was impossible to ban guns before 3d printing,it’s extra impossible now.

        Say you could ban guns?
        Some acme magnet just sucked em all up .
        Now we are just back to the law of the jungle, much worse environment for women and the elderly especially.

        The year Florida got shall issue concealed carry rape went down 40% that first year.

        White America’s homicide rate would put us on the low end in Europe( was it Mark Twain who said censorship is like making everyone drink milk because babies can’t chew steak?)

        To steal from Chesterton the war on drugs was not tried and found wanting,it was found bad for oligarchs bottom lines and left untried.

        See the first and second opium wars
        Heroin exported during Vietnam
        C.i.a. selling cocaine during the 80’s
        Heroin production going up 9x under the u.s. occupation of Afghanistan vs previously under the Taliban.

        What is the rational behavior of a human being who finds out that he has no right to police protection?
        To take it into his own hands ,correct?

        You really should read Jill levoys book ghettoside to see what happens when the state abdicates it’s monopoly on violence.
        The decline in homicide solution rates in the last thirty years has come entirely at the expense of black homicide victims.

        White solution rates are almost unchanged per the homicide accountability project

        Maybe the media should concentrate on that fact and encourage blacks to work with police, I’m sure a big part is copscnot trying quite as hard,also a lack of witness cooperation. Id bet in general black cases are even assigned worse detectives.

        If you want an option on something that works,without letting the patients run the asylum but doesnt require a gestapo ,pick up David Kennedy’s “don’t shoot”.

        It gets old hearing gun owners get blamed when the lion share of us would have counseled against subsidizing illegitimacy like senator moynihan tried to, like weakening families and the church, and against ruining the schools( see” left back” by Diane ravitch a card carrying liberal) .
        Does it stand to reason that these kids might do better in schools if they concentrated more on teaching the three R’s than inculcating global warming dogma in 7 year olds? I think it does.
        See Steve sailers “crevasses in the classroom”
        The achievement gap is the very biggest in the most left wing cities.
        Berkeley , shaker heights, Madison etc,etc.

        Psst nobody mention that white kids in the lowest income quintile outscore blacks in the highest income quintile on the s.a.t., people might get the idea that the problem is intractable.

        Btw people who lionize criminals so much they want hands off policing,thus forcing God fearing,law abiding,salt of the earth people who live in these neighborhoods to live by the law of the jungle are actually the real racists.
        You want safe neighborhoods ,but you think black people don’t. F+&king morons.
        Copinthehood ( criminal justice academic blog written by a criminal justice scholar who also worked as a cop in baltimore for several years) had a good article recently about white liberals who are to the left of blacks on crime.
        Cites a pew study that asked American blacks, would you like less,more or the same police presence in your neighborhood? 45% said same,45% said more, 10% said less.

        You say that men have been emasculated in recent times,well throughout history what are the three roles men have always been tasked with? ( Gilmore ,manhood’s in the making)
        Protect the perimeter
        Find / attract a mate and procreate
        Provide for said offspring

        Protecting your family is your first job.

        Google Thomas sowells article on homicide solution rates pre Miranda vs post Miranda, and see how even back then leftist shit heels prioritized individual pieces of excrement vs the community.
        I’m sure more people were unfairly convicted but Chicago only solving 25 percent of homicides has a consequentialists cost to.
        From the crooked timber that is humanity nothing straight has ever been built.
        What it all comes down to is that people like you think that because there are crazy people in the world I shouldn’t be able to own a gun, the problem is that’s exactly why I think I need one.

        A leftist thinks a 19 yr old cop with one week of firearms training should be able to carry a gun,but my 60 year old father whos never been in a fight or spent a night in jail shouldn’t.
        A conservative knows my father to be the better bet.
        What do you need an assault rifle for ? You can’t fight the u.s. military with assault rifles.
        Really ? Tell that to the Viet Cong or the Afghanis.
        The rules leftists put forward wouldn’t solve any of the last ten mas shootings but they somehow think they will prevent future ones( the chesspieces fallacy’s : that people will do what you want them to)
        Let’s see I can’t buy a gun( when background checks fail it’s usually because some leftist doesn’t want to report someone’s mental health diagnosis, thus stigmatizing them for life, admittedly a concern)
        Ann Coulter also has statistics on how western European countries lock up approximately 10x as many mentally I’ll people.

        But let’s assume I can’t buy a gun legally , what could I do?

        Buy it illegally
        Steal one
        Make one by hand
        3d print one
        Buy an 80% lower
        Order one through the mail from overseas
        Smuggle one in
        Flirt with a fat girl with low self esteem who can pass a background check like the Columbine kids did

        There is a guy online who assembles a musket/ blunderbuss all from things you can buy after you pass the security checkpoint at the airport

        Lithium ion battery, hair dryer I think, handful of quarters.

        If America had our current rate of violent assault / homicide in 1900 with their medicine, our homicide rate would be approximately 10x what it is.

        We don’t really have a civilization ,we have a veneer of civilization completely dependant on technology to make us seem civilized

        Why don’t you look up the “lead theory of crime”
        Higher lead levels = longer rap sheet in a dose dependant manner which epidemiology demands.
        Nuerologists willingly admit more lead equals worse executive function.
        21 years after we lead gasoline crime starts going up ,21 years after we remove it ,crime starts going down also explains other things that were resistant to explaining like why cities have such higher crime rates than rural areas even after controlling for population.
        Doesn’t require more gun control ( when approx 50% of primary gun crimes / charges fall on blacks already more gun control will probably be mostly enforced on whites similar to Nicolas Cruz not having the police called in him for any if 49 offenses in school because he was nominally Hispanic any which of would have prevented him most likely from being able to buy a gun)
        Getting the lead out would be as simple as mega doses of vitamin c and pretty cheap , and if it didn’t work ,sorry we just improved your health immensely.
        Oligarchs are obsessed with overpopulation,so it would be a non starter, don’t do anything about your toxic load( GMOs, glyphosate,heavy metals,plastics ,formaldehyde , aren’t toxic in small amounts, what about when I have 200-700 chemicals in my body? Might it then be a problem?
        Nope let’s keep villifying blood sugar even though u.s. sugar consumption skyrocketed decades before diabetes went up at all.
        Look at diabetes an u.s.chdmical production per 1000 tons though , pretty perfect overlap( toxin solution by pizzorno)
        Don’t make your cell membranes out of pufa’s ( polyunsaturated fats) which are approx 9x as sensitive to the maillaird reaction as saturated fats and try and lower your toxic burden as much as reasonable will do much more to prevent diabetes than obsessing over blood sugar.

        In sumnation you have opened my eyes on a myriad of issues,allow me to open your eyes on this one.

        Guns don’t kill people, and in the absence of guns, people still kill people.
        Good guys and the weak need guns more than bad guys do.
        Also people are not fungible , look up the “warrior Gene” for instance
        It occurs at vastly different rates among the races, people with low self esteem don’t hurt others they hurt themselves and people difffer vastly in self esteem, people with high self esteem hurt others.
        The lefts desire to raise self esteem largely puts the cart before the horse,competence comes first.
        It’s also why American kids are the least competent and most confident among developed nation’s.
        The worst of the four possibilities
        High competence,low esteem
        High competence ,high esteem
        Low comp,low esteem
        Low comp, high esteem

        But also in the small pockets of success the left has just caused more violence.

      2. If you would like to learn something about gun use, follow the links in this article. They goe to much of the recent high-quality research about gun use.

        Also – surveys of self-reporting about politicized subjects are notoriously unreliable. People self-report defensive gun use at roughly the same rate as they self-report being abducted by aliens.

        Procedurate note: comments should be a few hundred words top. My posts are 1000 – 2000 words. Your comment is over 1600. No more, please. If you have that much to say, start a blog.

  9. By high quality research ,you mean leftist sources I guess.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/#4b24d926299a

    How about actually engaging with any if the arguments I made? I guess not

    You really should check out the hierarchy of arguments sometime.
    Nope , well let’s just call this one of your ideological blindspots.
    Plus I’m told I can quibble with your arguments but not substantively. We don’t want people putting too much effort into their comments now do we, it might show too much of a grasp of the relevant issues ,people might be swayed.
    It is your blog so I will defer but it is very bad form.
    What it comes down to is you either think human beings have a fundamental right to self defense or you don’t.

    Have you seen Johnathan haidts work on cognitive differences between liberals and conservatives ?
    Liberals are more open minded to new experience, and conservatives are more conscientious ( truthful)

    Mark steyn has a very good article called something like ” where there are no guns” about how in the u.k. the parents of rich celebs have to basically hide in the mansions their kids bought them,because they aren’t allowed to defend themselves against burgulats without being arrested,he cites several celebrity examples.

    One way anti gunners benefit from guns is that in britain where criminals main concern is being caught,the majority of burglaries occur at night,in the u.s.where the primary concern is not getting shot,the majority occur during the day when at least most families aren’t home.
    Just like immigration ,( depressing wages)gun control hurts the poor the most, the people who have the worst police responses ,and can least afford gated communities ,have the hardest time getting guns/ carry permits.

    How many of our elites in clown world would you say are protected with firearms? Even disnne feinstein has a carry permit.

    Idsay it approaches 100 percent.
    Are they better than us plebs in your mind?
    Do they deserve self defense more than us great unwashed asses( masses)?

    1. Psansonetti,

      “By high quality research ,you mean leftist sources I guess.”

      No. I mean distinguished academics (eg, at Harvard). Researchers at RAND (the military’s go-to company for analytics, created for them). Surveys by PEW, regarded as one of the best in the world.

      Also, Forbes is a blogging site. The people publishing there often have little or no qualifications for expertise in the subject they’re writing about.

  10. The Man Who Laughs

    ‘What are you talking about? This post refers to a change in policing at the request of the community’s elected officials. Neither of those things is consistent with an “abandonment.”’

    Abandonment I sez. They are giving up enforcing on the gangs because it’s too hard and upsets the race pimps. This is, in practice, how it will work out.

    When I saw you calling this a “bold experiment” I thought you maybe were being sarcastic. well, I had been up all night working, and I was tired, so maybe that was a reading fail, but no, you actually think this is a good idea.

    There’s always clever people to tell you why letting the criminals own the streets is really a good idea. This is just the latest iteration. But this is not like withdrawing from a firebase in Dogbreath Province in Central Kafiristan. This is a major metropolitan area in CONUS. And while Smart People may have told you that tis is a smart idea, I can assure you, that they are not as smart as they, or you think they are. The cops own the streets or the gangs do.

    By the way, citing “distinguished academics at Harvard” impresses people in the real world a lot less than you might think. Neither does “Researchers at RAND (the military’s go-to company for analytics, created for them)” when you stop to consider our military’s actual win loss record. .

    1. The Man,

      “This is, in practice, how it will work out.”

      With that ability to predict the future, you must be very very rich. Excuse the rest of us if we don’t consider your predictions to be the equivalent of facts, as your appear to do.

      “There’s always clever people to tell you why letting the criminals own the streets is really a good idea.”

      Can you provide an example of “clever people” saying that? Nothing in this post does so.

      1. Please tell me something you think I just made up.

        Does pew say only ten percent of blacks want less policing?

        http://www.copinthehood.com/2018/10/progressive-misbelief.html?m=1

        You selectively edit what comments get posted to appear smarter me thinks

        I don’t provide citations for every factoid because a. You say my posts are too long winded as it is.
        B. You probably won’t read it anyway.

        But rather than make vague statements ,about me making things up , why not cite a specific statement,that assumes , you are willing to change your mind I guess.

      2. Psansonetti,

        Filled with simple errors, as usual. Please read more carefully.

        (1) You are looking at national data. This post discusses the City of San Diego. Not the same thing. That’s the key point of post.

        Opinions differ by region, and between urban & suburban & rural areas. The 5 biggest cities in California are quite different: LA, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, and Fresco. Also – San Diego’s Hispanics differ a lot from those of Chicago.

        (2) You are looking at just African-Americans. As this post clearly states, the opposition to aggressive police patrolling comes from Hispanic and African-American communities.

        Also, I post your comments when they post somewhat relevant information (even when you use it wrong). Rants, no.

  11. It looks like a return of feudalism. With gangs becoming the law. Or that the inner city equivalent of warlords fight for control.

    1. info,

      I don’t understand why so many exaggerate what this article says. Nobody proposes abandoning the inner cities to gangs. Merely responding to some communities’ desire for less aggressive police action. Perhaps that will work. Perhaps not.

      Either way everybody will learn something from the experiment, and respond accordingly.

      1. @Larry Kummer

        Although it couldn’t be disputed that alternative modes of organized violence are proto-state entities.

        And pulling back has allowed them greater freedom of action. Would that allow them to grow stronger and make it even more harder to control?

      2. info,

        No need for apologies. We all make foolish comments. It’s life. And many commenters here and Facebook misinterpreted this article in the same way as you did.

        The stats show that the average dwell time on a post is a few minutes. Average, half are less. My guess is that many people comment without really reading the post. They skim and fit it into preexisting mental categories (many comments are clearly made after reading only the title and summary). That probably works well most places. But the FM website was set up to provide a contrary perspective, so that mode doesn’t work well here.

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