Summary: Men and women are going their own way. The result might be a crisis of unimaginable size and more difficult to fix than putting Humpty Dumpty together again. Think of it as social entropy, an arrow that runs in only one direction.
Emma Watson going her own way.
Women seeking to have it all
Vogue and the fleet of other such magazines and websites tell stories about the glory of being hot, young, affluent single women. It is great to be in their 20’s. Here is an account by Karley Sciortino in Vogue of the morning after a birthday “foursome.”
“I had an email from the couple’s joint Gmail account: ‘It was a pleasure f**king you into your 30s. Hope to see you again sometime!’
“I got home, hungover and happy, and threw out my Adidas sweatsuit. I couldn’t decide whether I should invite Sam, the software engineer who I met on Tinder who I actually like-like, out for after-dinner drinks. He’s a multilingual bisexual — the best type of guy.”
Life gets better in their 30’s, as she explains in “How Did I Become the Last Single Person in My Friend Group?”
“’At 25, you care,’ I explained. At 25, you don’t get invited to the good parties, you wear the wrong clothes, and you sleep with guys who you think are successful but in hindsight were actually hangers-on, and when they don’t text you back, you care. At 25, you can’t afford a good colorist so you dye your own hair from a $9 L’Oréal box and in the wrong light your blonde looks green. You’re insecure, you fake orgasms, and your Craigslist roommate’s coke parties keep you up all night. People don’t take you seriously, and you hate that you care, but you do. Sure, my boobs were a bit perkier at 25, but they didn’t even look that great because I bought the wrong bra.
“‘Around 30,’ I went on, ‘your life starts to naturally sort itself out. You have this surprising newfound confidence — it’s like it just sneaked up on you in the middle of the night. You stop caring about the little, insignificant things. It’s so freeing, not to care.’”
These stories often have sad endings but not the sort that the next generation of women are likely to learn from. The careers and parties are fun, and women gain experience year by year. They tell of women leading lives with men as bit parts — wandering on and off stage (wisely, as such women will file for divorce on the slightest whim). But they learn too late that time was not their friend. As in Sciortino’s tale of life in the 30’s. Red emphasis added, highlighting one of the great themes in feminist literature (it’s not the woman’s fault).
“But it’s not just that being single suddenly feels alienating in your 30s. It’s also that dating itself becomes more difficult. For one, the stakes are higher. You don’t want to waste your time on someone who doesn’t feel like they could be ‘the one.’ But simultaneously, thinking “would he make a good dad?” after knowing someone for the duration of a martini makes you feel like an insane, rom-com cliché of a woman. Not ideal.
“Essentially, we are far more discriminating in our 30s than we were in our 20s, which is both a blessing and a curse. We know more about what we want and what we won’t tolerate — but to a point where almost no one is good enough. I find myself having thoughts like, ‘I could never date him, he wears V-necks.’ Or, ‘He was nice, but he sleeps in a mezzanine bed.’ And this perpetual dissatisfaction is especially true in New York, where inflated egos are paired with incredibly high standards and the illusion of infinite choice.
“That cliché of thinking ‘someone better might be just around the corner’ is real. But I keep turning corners, and I keep meeting finance guys with high cholesterol who just discovered Williamsburg. Sigh. Sometimes I think I should’ve picked someone when I was 25 and stupid, and then just made it work.
“The catch is, as we become increasingly picky, the pool of soul mates keeps getting smaller. Here’s another 30s development: Now, when I meet a cute guy, he’s often already married. Just recently, I felt like I was truly connecting with my orthodontist — I mean, he’s literally been putting his fingers in my mouth for six months — only for him to drop last week that he has a wife. I feel misled.“
Much of this genre of women’s literature consists of tales about women attempting to “have it all” (often with disastrous results) — and others saying that women cannot have it all (here, here, and here).
What happens to these women if they either do not find Mr. Right, or cannot convince him to marry her? Foreshadowing this future, look to the writings of divorced women describing how they’re going their own way. The “happy and single” genre of women’s lit replacing stories of romance. Such as “I Didn’t Expect To Be Single At 42. Here’s How I’ve Embraced It.” by Jenn Maronek at (of course) HuffPo. See her Instagram page for photos of her and her cats.
Cats are the beneficiaries of the post-marriage America. Such as this in Cosmo: “Because, let’s face it, cats are often more emotionally intelligent than men. …The cat is permanent; you’re replaceable.”
Women going their own way.
An easy way to see how women are going their own way: See how they dress. In the bad old days, women dressed well — but commonly said they dressed “to please myself” with nice hair (curls, perms, etc.), stockings or pantyhose, make-up, staying ten pounds under their natural weight, and so forth.
Now we see women truly dressing to please themselves. Visit college campuses or shopping malls and see the young women. Their clothes most often are comfortable, loose, and drab. Their styles are low maintenance. They are frequently overweight or obese. They are going their own way, as is their right.
When getting married becomes a higher priority for women, changes in their daily appearance (not just dressing up for dates or clubbing) will be the most obvious signal.
Men going their own way, and the Empire pushes back
Women have pushed the average age of marriage into late 20’s. Successfully for most women. But the increasing number of stories like Sciortino’s tale of life in the 30’s suggest that is changing. As do all the articles about women complaining that women won’t marry them. “Peter Pan Syndrome: A Man’s Fear of Commitment.” “Learn how to make him commit: The Secret Lives of Men” by Joel D. Amos. “Where have all the good men gone?” by Alana Kirk.
Cheap booze. Cheap drugs (prices will fall with legalization). Sports. Video games. Masturbation, hook-ups, and eventually — sexbots. They add up to men learning to lead easy lives without marriage. The next decade might see a collapse in the number of marriages if more men see it as unnecessary or even a bad deal for them.
So the push-back begins. Women going their own way is progress. Men going their own way are “peter pans”, refusing to “grow up”, living in “perpetual adolescence.” The Wise and Good advise them to join the rat race. As in this video, one of the dumbest I have ever seen.
This instructional video gives two reasons for men to get married. First, to get respect. The roles of husband and father have not been held in widespread respect in America for generations. TV shows, films, and commercials portray them as buffoons and butt-monkeys, instructed in knowledge and morality by their wives and children.
Second, for all the benefits. But all the benefits are to women, children and society. The logic is the same as that of converting wild mustangs into gelded plow horses. Their productivity skyrockets, but is the horse better off?
This will not convince men to marry, risking divorce and a decade or two of child support.
Both men and women going their own way
Conservatives and liberals often describe a coming social disaster as resulting from a political, economic or environmental catastrophe — or even collapse. Such things have happened often in history.
America might face something different, and rarer: pure destabilizing social change. Changes in gender roles brought about by the culmination of a long philosophical tradition (individualism freed from constraints of society) and technology (contraceptive and medicine, liberating us from the constraints of nature). This is a revolution. Revolutions often have unexpected results.
Allen Bloom saw this in 1987, writing in Closing of the American Mind…
“People are no longer raised to think they ought to regard marriage as the primary goal and responsibility, and their uncertainty is mightily reinforced by the divorce statistics, which imply that putting all of one’s psychological eggs in the marriage basket is a poor risk. The goals and wills of men and women have become like parallel lines, and it requires a Lobachevskyan imagination to hope they may meet.”
For More Information
See the other posts in this series.
- A return to traditional values.
- Men finding individual solutions.
- Part 1 – An expert discusses individual solutions.
- Part 2 – Discussing women’s responses to men’s solutions.
- Part 3 – An expert sees wonders ahead!
- Part 4 – An expert: respect is a key battleground in the gender wars.
- Part 5 – An expert Game is toxic to feminism.
- Part 6 – An expert describes the road to respect for men.
- Coming soon, the answer: A counter-revolution in society.
Ideas! For shopping ideas, see my recommended books and films at Amazon.
If you liked this post, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. See all posts about society and gender issues, about feminism, and about marriage. Hat tip on the video to Dalrock.
Two books by Professor’s Regnerus about the revolution
Premarital Sex in America: How Young Americans Meet, Mate, and Think about Marrying (2011).
Cheap Sex: The Transformation of Men, Marriage, and Monogamy (2017).
56 thoughts on “The coming crash as men and women go their own way”
Wow. I have been reading these various posts on the changing nature of male/female relationships with sadness and trepidation. I live in a small Midwestern town; I’ve been married to my husband (college sweetheart) for 41 years. (Most of the people we know have also experienced lifelong marriages that have endured.) The comfort, the friendship and the love that we are fortunate to have as we approach the last chapter of our lives is a great blessing. Has our life together been a piece of cake? Absolutely not. We have experienced many ups and downs in the past four decades and there were moments when either one of us could have decided against remaining married. Yet, we persevered and grew closer together over time. What I have learned is that when you look back over your life, it is the shared experiences with those one loves that give life meaning. Marriage, after all, is about sharing your life with someone, first and foremost.
The younger members of our extended families (Gen X and Millennials) have listened to us when we have shared with them our philosophies surrounding what brings life meaning and joy. The older ones are married, raising children, finding joy in growing a family, successfully navigating all the ‘kinks’ in a two-career marriage. The younger ones are either seriously dating someone or already engaged and planning to be married.
I don’t believe that women wanting their own careers is the issue. Women, as my mother used to say, have always worked. It is just that in the past century, that work was increasingly outside of the home given the move from an agriculturally based economy to an industrial economy and now to the post-industrial economy. My husband and I have both had successful and demanding careers.
I realize from reading your posts on the threats to healthy male/female relationships that I have lived and continue to live in a protected bubble. One of the many benefits of living in “fly-over” country.
Thank you for your posts, I read most of them on all the various subjects. Your blog makes me think. I don’t always agree with your conclusions, but I will continue to read and consider your well thought out arguments.
On this continuing series on the changing nature of male/female relationships, I am praying that this is just a foolish detour that eventually is rejected.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. My sons (one now in Iowas after 5 years in the USM, the second a senior in college) report that my advice about girls and dating was useless. Girls have radically changed since I was dating in the 1970s. I might as well have been telling them how to hunt dinosaurs.
It’s a new world out there for people in their 20s. Few older people — whose voices dominate in the media — realize this. Hence the potential for surprises.
I think the sentiments are 30 years too late. I think women and feminists should have been aware of the dangers which the politicization of gender would cause. I’m a 39 yo MGTOW man, never married and no children. Don’t date, and keep women at arms length. The point is that there is no turning back for me, that ship has sailed, women should have realized the risks when I was young, finishing school and having to learn what women are about. That would have been the time to make a difference. Many guys like me has already swallowed that red pill, a pill that cannot be unswallowed. MGTOW seems to be the fastest accelerating social phenomena in the west.
But once you made changes in the gender relations, then everything else will be affected. The funny thing is, the women who are now shocked at how things ended up is the generation of women who had the biggest voices and who got things going to this to begin with. In the year 2000 I spoke to a feminist while on the train, and told her back then. The end game will be that men and women will go their own way and not marry anymore. she called me a pessimist. Today I know I was right and they haven’t seen it coming despite the warnings.
As a young science student at the time, my theory was and still is, that if you change anything in a complex system then everything will change due to the massive amount of relationships between nodes, directly or indirectly everything change, some with positive feedback, some with negative feedback and some for the better and some for the worse. So my statement to her was, feminism will not make things better for women or men, it will only make things different. You guys are not making anything better, you just make it different, you will gain advantages you never had, and lose those you took for granted.
Problems you had will mostly be solved, things that was never a problem will now mostly become a problem and there is no escape from that reality. Because if you make changes to a system, then expect the system to change for better and worse on all aspects, intended and unintended.
But today I say, sistas should go do it for themselves and committed myself to spend all my time and money on my life long studies and the growth of my business. I don’t regret my decision for one moment. But what I did observe was, the women back then who were full of it that they don’t need a man and men are the cause of all the worlds problems, those women today are 40 years old, biological clock is running out and is frustrated that there are no men for them. But as i say, that ship has sailed and there is nothing women can do about it now. They were ignorant back then, and their children are suffering the results today. But this is just the beginning because this generation of women do not realize that they are taking things to the next level, and they have no idea why things are not as they used to be.
Wow, you have eloquently explained what I have for years stated crudely, that it takes women decades to learn anything and in the mean time they take society on a wild ride.
I think that’s a harsh way to express this. Rather, feminists appear to be prioritizing their personal needs (and their feelings) above the needs of their societies. Perhaps many can’t abstract sufficiently well to see the complex dynamics of social change. Or, perhaps some of them just want to burn our society down and rebuild on the ruins.
Perhaps this is just another way of saying just what you said, but with more and bigger words.
I second the comments by Larr.
My sons have told me that they have yet to encounter any young women of their age group that appeals to them in any way. They are very sensitive to how easily a relationship can be destroyed over what might seem trivial reasons, and aren’t willing to risk that kind of emotional damage.
They came to these beliefs on their own without any input from me. I see no reason from my own observations to try to disabuse them of their beliefs because I can see for myself that they are making the correct choices in avoiding relationships. There is no reason for them to have miserable lives due to the expectations of society.
Many of the boys I led as Scouts say similar things. College loans, aggressive princess attitudes, tats, etc – make for a combo that many young men find unappealing as long-term partners. Or even girlfriends.
“They came to these beliefs on their own without any input from me.”
I’m often told that Boomer parents raised boys to deal with girls that no longer exist. That is, our advice is useless – or worse than useless – in the world of these men. We carefully taught them what kind of girl to marry. What they call unicorns (ie, so rare they might as well be mythical). The reply is “thanks, dad.”
Men are radically different too, I see this as I have a sister of 30, too many guys just don’t want to settle down. My sister is not really career orientated, she longs for children, but finds it all disappointing. She is a worker, so has been promoted, but she would be happier part time with 2 or 3 children, Too many guys just leave, the idea of the second job to get the house ready for children, the family car, the putting in all the extra effort is not a Peter Pan life.
My sister did say something to me about this though, the no heart Alphas just hit on anyone all day, so they often get the the girls, especially younger ones that are very flattered and naive, executive and new photocopy girl. What happens after a week the executive moves to next hit that worked, naive and young girl, thinks so this is how it is played. Beta (Mr. Average) who would marry Photocopy girl in a flash spends time and money and she burns him to get revenge, plus he is not successful or rich so a step down after Alpha’s BMW and Bay Pad. Alpha just gets a string of consequences and Beta thinks sex bot – where, when.
Alpha are often just heartless, I saw this when I worked in sales, they exceeded targets always, they sold anything to anyone and upsold to people in debt to impossible levels; I made sales but could not bankrupt people with teaser low interest starter loans with the sales. The heartless drove BMWs or similar, I drove and drive a Ford, I lived in an average suburb with savings in the bank, they lived up town on 100% interest only loans and worn flash clothes. No prizes for guessing who got the most girls!! Their ratio was 5 to 1, if I said they live in houses of cards, I was told I was jealous, often even by their ex’s.
Hard work, saving and stability just get too few rewards if they are possible in this economic climate, so when a lower earners sees this, is it any wonder they think part time and Peter Pan life, it is easier and I am not able to get ahead anyway. Women are getting ahead only relative to before, so it seems they are doing well. Really, we are all seeing wages fall and life getting harder.
I am married and have three children.
The social science literature is quite clear about something most people know quite well: women set the terms for dating and marriage. Those dynamics have changed radically, and men have responded to them. That’s what your sister is seeing and reporting.
“the no heart Alphas just hit on anyone all day”
It’s called unleashed hypergamy. The social mechanisms that directed girls and women to men in their “league” are almost gone. So women ride the “carousel” — and the dating market becomes an expression of Pareto’s Law. The top 20% of the guys gets 80% of girls attention, and almost all of their desire. This is visible in the sexual harassment game (excluding the relatively rare extreme acts): women tend to love from alphas what they call harassment from betas.
“too many guys just don’t want to settle down”
I suggest that you read the posts in the For More Info section. Guys are not required to “settle down.” It’s not a mandate. Under today’s circumstances many (perhaps to become “most” soon) see it as a bad deal.
“I am married and have three children.”
The world has changed. I suggest more close examination of how, as I have attempted to do in these posts. Condemning men for reacting to a world women made seems a bit odd, in my opinion.
“But it’s not just that being single suddenly feels alienating in your 30s. It’s also that dating itself becomes more difficult. For one, the stakes are higher.”
And something analogous happens with men who make it into their late twenties with little to no romantic success, although many people seem unaware of this, or unable to acknowledge it. As you rightly point out, men don’t HAVE to settle down. Maybe it would be better for society if they did. Maybe it would even be better for the men themselves if they did, for any given definition of the word better.
But in the back of his mind is the question “What’s in it for me?” They have to want to do this. It’s sometimes said that you can negotiate sex, but you can’t negotiate desire. It’s there or it isn’t. Well, the desire to commit is there, or it isn’t.
Your description of the video as “one of the dumbest I have ever seen” is spot on. I had seen it over at Dalrock and found it impossible to sit through. It reminded me of some of the drug/sex ed films they showed us in school back in the days. Back then I had to sit through that stuff, but not anymore. There might be a persuasive case to be made for young men marrying in these decadent times (or not), but this isn’t it.
“But in the back of his mind is the question “What’s in it for me?” ”
He’s quite mad if that is not in the front of his mind. It certainly is for her.
“It reminded me of some of the drug/sex ed films they showed us in school back in the days.”
That’s a great analogy. Now that you point it out, it reminds a bit of Reefer Madness in its style of advocacy.
The essential thing to understand about “what’s in it for me?” is that what a man commits to in marriage is concrete, legally enforceable, and easily explained. What, exactly, does a woman commit to in marriage — in the sense that law and social ties will hold her to it?
The conventional wisdom, thanks to feminism, is that traditional wifely vows are oppression, and repudiating them an empowering act. With no-fault, cash and prizes divorce always available in reserve, a woman promises a man essentially nothing beyond what her desires lead her to do at any moment. Men are catching on to that, collectively, and that is why marriage is drying up as an institution.
That’s a powerful insight, one new to me.
My guess is similar but slightly different. I agree that the optionality of marriage contract has changed how women regard it. Combined with child support and women’s ability to produce income similar to a man’s, this has “hat trick” of changed society.
Just as we have learned how many women dress when doing so just to “please themselves”, we learn how many women weigh marriage vs. independence. The high divorce rate after the children are born reveals that they want children — but romance and husbands, not so much.
Careers, govt-enforced child support, and easy divorce all them to (if not have it all) have a lot more than in the past.
The big question is how men will respond to this new form of marriage, a system quite extractive of their resources. Just as women are acting in their own best interests (not the children’s or society’s), men might do the same. From Allan Bloom’s Closing of the American Mind:
I don’t blame guys for social changes, but I don’t blame just all women. If we say all women only want to be single and have careers it is to let the left have the power.
I was married young and divorced young (mainly my fault), it is life. At 31 I was single again, I soon realised the available women were often burned from old relationships, into “living together apart” or not into much more than “friends with benefits” (and friends was plural).
At 36 a full time College Lecturer, I dated and married the young and pretty; the 25 year old receptionist. I am now 54 and we have 3 kids, and we are still married. She is very traditional and my rock, I give her a life above the one she might have had. I still look young about 2-3 years older than her not eleven, she has kept me young and given be children. I would otherwise be just like me friend in the paragraph below.
I have a great friend, now a Principle Lecturer and he is a divorced guy with three children. They stay every second weekend, Thursday evening to Sunday evening, plus week long stays in the school holidays. He has given up on re-partnering, he has two regular female friends with benefits (one a Barrister and the other a Marketing Manager) and pays once a week. Plus a fair number of lazy students who he writes assignments for, it is easier to lay on their backs for 10 – 20 minutes, he’s 56 and they are mostly early 20’s, and too many have boyfriends.
I understand the 20 : 80 rule, I have a Masters in economics and ages 31 to 36 moved College twice, you guess why. Sales job long gone like first wife! 6’1″, 182 lbs, Masters education, 11 weeks paid leave and good salary. My wife was not the only receptionist I dated in that office, just the youngest and prettiest.
Even my wife says to me let’s put the children’s inheritance in a Trust Fund to keep it safe long term, the two boys and our daughter. I know the way life is now and I worry about my children, I just don’t think my daughter is a budding axe murderer out to get my son’s friends in a singleton box fitted out with X box and Porno. And my son perfect marriage material waiting to leap into fatherhood and nose to the grind stone life.
“If we say all women only want to be single and have careers it is to let the left have the power.”
Social changes are an emergent phenomenon from individuals’ behavior. What they “want” is only a tiny factor. What they do collectively is more important. Nor does the behavior have to be identical throughout the group. It is the totality of individuals’ behavior that matters.
As sociologists and psychologists know, asking people what they want reveal little. To see what women “want” (in terms of their priorities), see how they act. How they dress, what kind of men they like, how they respond to men, etc.
I strongly that you read Cheap Sex: The Transformation of Men, Marriage, and Monogamy (2017) by Mark Regnerus, professor of sociology. Links to information are in the For More Info section.
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Surely the common thread here is the lack of desire for children. Given that, everything else follows.
Parallel paths for men and women both wind up in the grave, so this is a self correcting process.
Child unfriendly societies such as ours have antecedents, but they don’t last.
Women aren’t going their own way. They’re taking over the places of men in society. Men in return, are going “their own” way because society no longer has a place for them and men staying home raising babies is neither rewarding nor a natural lifestyle.
Look at how women dress these days: pants instead of dresses, short haircuts, they’re dressing like men. Acting like men. While forcing their way into every male space they can identify. Men don’t dress like women or force their way into female spaces. People-watching at the mall is enough to realize that women envy men and want to usurp our place.
But there’s no denying biology.
I think this is semantics. We’re agree on what is happening, describing the same phenomenon in different terms.
And thats why MGTOW is growing.
Dear Gunner, what passes for women’s clothing … bblleeech! Pants on women show their every pound. Dresses, for-real dresses, hide the excess 30 to 40 pounds. And yeah, women need to have some regard for the body the Lord gave them – so this is not a pro-fatty post … just a realistic one.
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Excellent blog, Mr. Kummer. I am Spanish and I stumbled upon the manosphere a while ago, I guess that subconsciously looking for answers to my romantic failure.
My perspective as a foreigner is that America (and often the Anglosphere as well) usually arrives first at the future, so you are probably witnessing the future global trends as well.
Regarding my neck of the woods, I can say that the changes in Spain have been staggering: in 1975 we were leading Europe in terms of fertility (2,90 children per female), and by 1998 it had fallen to one of the world’s lowest (1,15). We have incredibly high unemployment (17%) and it is normal for young people to live with their parents until their late 20s or even more -which is my case. From the circumstancial evidence my friends and acquaintances provide, I can tell that many men will have it tough to marry, and many women will be desperate to do so with some financially stable man. However here I don’t perceive the massive social/familial pressure to marry that American blogs convey, and procreating without marrying later is not a problem anymore (we might be ahead of you on that trend).
It’s funny, but from a very early age,15 or so, I always knew I did not want to get married or have children. I assumed the latter was normal being that young, but marriage…I just could not see the point, despite growing up in an intact family and never having witnessed a serious argument between my parents. I feel weirdly vindicated now. Marriage is indeed not only pointless, but too risky for men.
Expect more cohabitation, and more “baby mommas” across the board. What once was frowned upon will become the norm. Personally I don’t expect outright social collapse, but our societies will become much weaker: the crucial support a robust family provides, both emotional and economic, will be gone forever. Here in Spain many folks have literally survived the last crisis thanks to their extended families. There are areas in the south of the country that had higher unemployment rates than the Gaza Strip a few years ago.
Thank you for your first-person reporting from Spain!
So how have these changes affected the tug-of-war between the genders? Supply and demand. Have they benefited men (e.g., easier access to sex) or women (e.g., able to demand more from men)?
I would say that girls have it incredibly easy now, so early on at least they “win”. I have never had a partner, but talking to some other friends who have been more succesful they tell me that social media and technology in general work in women’s favor.
However I suspect that men are wising up fast to the new realities of dating, and will be more less likely to commit in the future.
In my view it is mistaken to blame all this on “cultural Marxism”, or “the left” as a whole, as it is common in the typically right-leaning American manosphere. Feminism has always been driven by consumer capitalism. I really recommend you to check the French Marxist philosopher Michel Clouscard, who introduced the concept of “capitalism of seduction” and explained how social liberalism goes hand in hand with it. Just think of how much the combo “economically conservative but socially liberal” has grown in the last decades.
Clouscard summarizes the idea with a simple formula: “All is allowed, but nothing is possible”. Yes, the old social taboos are mostly over, and certain minorities no longer oppressed, but meaningful socioeconomic change is unlikely. Please read this amazing Twitter thread where it is perfectly explained:
have you looked at r/K evolutionary Psychology – see anonymousconservative .com
He suggests, and there seems to be other sources I’ve seen*, that our reaction to adversity built up by our past expericence with adversity makes us liberal or conservative and has us wanting pleasure of sex (with or without children) or pain of parenting (with or without the pleasure boost from sex). With it he explains why things like choice of having sex or abortion is linked together with gun control (another choice to own guns?). And why those who wish to prevent abortions claim to be interesting in people making free choices.
* research in to “digust” or how sensetive we are to it shows that those with a low threashold tend to be liberal and unconcerned about behaviors that could result in disease. Those with high sensetivity tend to be conservative and concerned with behaviors that coudl result in disease.
There is still this myth that your thirties are the new twenties but it doesn’t work like that. The human brain is still developing until about 25. The decisions you make in the late teens through your twenties will shape the person you will become emotionally and psychologically. Of course the career and educational choices you make then will likely also set your path for life.
if she hasn’t figured out how to maintain a meaningful connection with a man she likely cannot ever now.
Oh my still pushing the MRA piffle, “unleashed hypergamy”…what nonsense. Hypergamy is an imaginary condition MRAS (and incels, MGTOW, etc) used to excuse the fact that they are horrible misogynistic people, that no sensible woman would have a bar of.
The basic fact is that there is still far too many men who never grew past the 8 year old emotional maturity level. They seem to think they ‘have a right’ to a ‘wife’ who is part mother, domestic servant and sex slave, while they have problems with showering and wearing clean clothes (we won’t go into such complexities such as cooking, cleaning and so on)……
However many men have woken up and those men and women get together just fine. What many women will NOT accept is some immature loser, and when I say ‘loser’ I don’t mean in the monetary sense, but in the behavoural and emotional maturity sense.
I know heaps of smart talented women who would love to have, at least, a boyfriend…but they will not take any crap from them. And if push comes to shove they will rather be on their own, than put up with someone who won’t even use toilet paper to wipe themselves (true story).
And the other thing is that they have rich, interesting lives. Friends, activities, hobbies …in contrast to far too many men who are incapable of even forming and maintaining a friendship with other men, let alone a relationship with a woman (for those that are heterosexual that is).
The simple fact is that far too many men, seemingly especially in the US, are not nice people at all.
So what is wrong with them, why are they that way, emotionally damaged, lazy …… and, as usual, instead of having a cold hard look at themselves and changing, they blame women (same old, samae old).
I’m transgender, I spent years in ‘the closet’ pretending and in doing so carefully watched other men …and most (fortunately not all) were duds in just about every measure. Trapped into performing ‘masculinity’, petrified someone would think they are gay, endlessly policing each other and calling each other out when they showed even the slightest trace of decent humanity let alone…shudder…empathy, or kindness.
When I transitioned to my true gender, I suddenly found a much better class of people. More fun, more interesting, more creative, more accomplished, kinder and far nicer…and that was cis heterosexual women and the LGBTI community.
The cis straight male community that I left behind were so barren, boring and shallow..and toxic. You always knew another man would betray you if it was to their advantage, if it was to ‘prove’ their so called ‘masculinity’ to some other men, or to get a little bit higher on the ‘greasy slope’.
So the issue isn’t women, it is those men who cannot examine themselves, grow up and become mature, instead of remaining as bratty whiny little boys. Little boys that my Grandfather would despise…he who fought in the Somme, worked in the shipyards, spoke 4 languages, brought up 3 kids on his own after his wife died, could cook clean, sow…the lot..who taught me to play chess and …sow. And he was kind and gentle and strong. He was a man, unlike those whiners.
That’s quite the rant. Time will tell who is correct.
Follow-up note — It’s a waste of time to give info to science deniers, but I’ll make a brief exception for you.
(1) “Hypergamy is an imaginary condition”
Hypergamy has been an standard term in the social science literature for a century or more. The first article about it in Nature (one of the two major US science journals) is “The Origin of Hypergamy” by W.H.R> Rivers, 13 January 1921. There have been thousands since, documenting the existence of this behavioral dynamic in a wide range of societies around the world across history.
(2) “‘unleashed hypergamy’ – what nonsense.”
“Unleashed hypergamy” is a non-technical description of one effect of women’s liberation from the family and social constraints that limited women’s choices, so that they can follow their personal preferences.
(3) Current research about hypergamy.
The leading edge of this research examines the effect of women’s increasing lead over men in education. For example: “The Gender-Gap Reversal in Education and Its Effect on Union Formation: The End of Hypergamy?” by Albert Esteve et al. in Population and Development Review, September 2012.
Also see the follow-up paper: “The End of Hypergamy: Global Trends and Implications” by Albert Esteve et al. in Population and Development Review, December 2016.
Lisa’s “rant” is quite intelligent, regardless of his or her gender politics.
At the end what women, feminst, MRA or MGTOW put forward as facts are all nonsense. My years in the world of science has taught me that people believe what they want and facts dont matter that much, its handy but not the main driving force. Beliefs lead, facts follow to support the beliefs. First the feeling starts, then we look for facts which correlate with the feelings to put forward as the cause…who knows why we really feel or see the world a certein way, its a biochemical complexity very few understand.
I can tell you I am MGTOW because of family courts, but if they say, okay lets change the courts, will i change my mind? Probibly not, feminist say they protest because men rape, or women make 76c to the dollar, well if those things would be solved tomorrow, whould feminism go away? Probably not, they will just look for new things to put men down for or to blame for.
If you walk into a church and put the facts about big bang theory up, do you think they will say, “oh gosh we never knew, lets drop our beliefs get up and leave the church”? Nope its never gonna happen, they may argue the facts to support their beleiefs. if people want to go to church they will, and the facts dont matter. they will go where their views lead them ans not the facts.
If a woman wants to be a feminist, she will be one, why is not important, if men want to go their own way, they will, the facts about women are not that important, even if women turn back to the 60s men will still go their own way, the new environment makes it feel like the better thing to do, so yeah we can think of all these reasons that encourage our decisions, but its probably not why we chose our paths, because even if we correct those issues, not much will change anyway.
Only our reasons for our decisions will change but the decisions will mostly stay the same, our views stay the same. So people can argue all they want who is right? feminists, mgtow, mras? but at the end it does not matter, we will not easily convince someone to change what they believe in and view the world as, its far more complicated than the few arguments we toss around. I find MGTOW works best for me, and you can send women back to the stone age, and it will not change much. There will always be something in whatever culture that will support my MGTOW philosophy and there will always be some things feminist can hold against men if they look hard enough, and so they will
“At the end what women, feminst, MRA or MGTOW put forward as facts are all nonsense.”
Wow. All of them? Lots of self-confidence!
“Their clothes most often are comfortable, loose, and drab. Their styles are low maintenance. They are frequently overweight or obese. They are going their own way, as is their right.
When getting married becomes a higher priority for women, changes in their daily appearance (not just dressing up for dates or clubbing) will be the most obvious signal.”
Seriously?! Just because women are losing interest in marriage doesn’t mean they don’t still make an effort with their appearance! It’s a well known fact that women generally dress for themselves and other women anyway! And while marriage might not be that popular amongst Millennials, heterosexual women still want to attract the opposite sex!
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!
For another perspective on why marriage is failing as an institution check out my blog: https://breadwinnerwife.blog/2018/02/14/the-curse-of-the-breadwinner-wife/
(1) “Just because women are losing interest in marriage doesn’t mean they don’t still make an effort with their appearance!”
That’s backwards from what I said. I said that women are — at last — dressing to please themselves, not to gratify the male eye. They, of course, have the right to do so. Walk down any American street and see the result. Look at the data about the epidemic of obesity.
That has consequences, as it can reduce their odds of getting married. So two values clash, as it so often the case in life. Hence my conclusion: when getting married becomes a higher priority, then appearance will change.
(2) “It’s a well known fact that women generally dress for themselves”
The standard teaching of feminists is that imposed standards of appearance (dressing for men) are a symptom of the patriarchy’s power. I was taught that in the mid-1970s, and it is still a core belief.
(3) “while marriage might not be that popular amongst Millennials”
There is evidence that Millennial women still want to get married. But they report that Millennial men are less interested. Hence the many articles “How to get my man to marry me” and very few articles “how to get my girl to marry me.”
But this article refers to the next generation, those now in their early 20s — to a large extent raised according to feminist beliefs.
(4) “heterosexual women still want to attract the opposite sex!”
The discussion is about something more specific: women’s ability to get men to marry them.
(5) “I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!”
I suggest instead reading more carefully.
(Apologies if you have covered this material before – I am new here.)
Every empire follows a cultural trajectory. This is another way of saying that, however much we might wish to, we cannot go back to the values of 50 or 100 years ago. We imagine that a humane, free society with rights for women is a modern development, but in fact the same thing has been tried a dozen times in the West alone, in different places and times, going as far back as the Bronze Age. We are in the late stage of our empire, before its inevitable collapse. The process is described in this short pamphlet written by Sir John Glubb in the 1970s: “The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival” (1976).
An important takeaway is that (with the exception of the transition from the Roman Republic to the Empire) the collapse is permanent. Those who argue that we should allow society to collapse, so it can be rebuilt, forget that the rebuilding will take place somewhere else – China, for example.
You might imagine that Glubb’s findings would inform national policy-making at the highest level, but you would be wrong. We might be the first civilization to understand the reasons why we will be gone in 100 years’ time – but we choose to do nothing about it.
Our writings will serve as a warning to future generations – just like the chronicles of Baghdad in its Golden Age, cited by Glubb – but, of course, those generations will pay no more attention to history than we do.
The inexorability of our “progress” is frightening. Perhaps this is the lesson of the Tower of Babel. Any civilizational effort to bring heaven to earth is doomed.
All good points. But I don’t believe we can say the US (or West) are in a state of collapse. That’s been said many times during the past several hundred years — yet here we are.
Western European countries are in a state of demographic collapse – both because women spend more of their fertile years in paid work, and also because the cost of family formation is too high. The response of the ruling classes is to substitute the never-born with people from places like Eritrea, Somalia, and Iraq.
It is hard to overstate the magnitude of this change. The decrease in the birth rate differs in each country, ranging from a third to a half. The last time there was a loss of population this severe was the Black Death in the 14th Century – and people still discuss that today, along with the social changes that it wrought. This time around, the loss of population will have even greater consequences because it will be repeated in each generation – every 30 years.
At the same time, most of the newcomers do not share our values, place strict limits on the freedom of women, and have a much higher birth rate. A quarter of babies born in Britain have a foreign-born mother; half of new allocations of public housing are to the foreign-born.
Most people do not notice that we are in the middle of a social collapse, because it is happening slowly, over the course of a century.
I agree that the USA is not in such a desperate situation as Western Europe: its birth rate is not so far from replacement level, the gap between the values of its (Hispanic) immigrants and the native-born is not so large, it is separated from the Islamic world by wide oceans, and above all Americans had the courage to vote for Trump and his wall.
However, as you note, the present situation is still in flux, and the social entropy is not going to decrease.
I agree about the situation in Europe. But long-term straight line extrapolations are usually wrong because others see the same developments — and react. Under severe pressure from the Right to limit immigration, Europe’s elites are responding by slowly closing the doors. This is happening very fast in Eastern Europe, whose societies have less stability than those in the west.
And, of course, the same thing is happening in the US.
So I don’t say you are certainly wrong. But I disagree with your certainty about collapse.
Alphas can behave as they please, because the demand for alphas far outstrips the supply.
The upper classes send their daughters to “finishing school” to learn how to be a lady. Perhaps we should all send our sons to a finishing school, to learn how to be an alpha.
This measure would greatly increase the satisfaction of the nation’s women. Yet, paradoxically, feminists would scream outrage at the proposal of such schools.
Alphas! Oh great, more veneral disease in the collective – which those of us who do not fornicate will have to foot the (healthcare) bill for the slimeballs who do (screw around outside the bounds of marriage). Alphas indeed SUCK.
First, VD is only passed on where there are two partners. Your assumption that women don’t have agency in sex (can’t require protection) is sexist.
Second, an average women can rack up the total of an alpha. And increasingly, they do. Does that mean sexually active women are bad?
There’s a word to describe women who fornicate…”bad” is a more polite word, than the one i was sorely tempted to post.
I hope you see the difficulty of describing life today that is implicit in your comments.
Condemning alpha guys for having sex with many girls strips them of agency – bad in both old and new moralities. But in the “old days” girls were protected/leashed because both guys and girls were assumed to be weak (in a moral sense).
Now condemning alphas is virtue signalling, but condemning their girl partners is slut-shaming. It’s a fun system, but risks becoming illegitimate.
Hypergamy is open and unforgiving.
But what’s happening is that modern women need not bother anymore to attempt to consolidate on their hypergamy.
They already know they cannot or will not find alpha fucks and beta bucks in one man. It happens, but too rarely.
No. They will divide and conquer with the help of the state, and preferential treatment in financing, educations admissions, hiring preferences and lowered standard in the world of work, and of course the benefit of the doubt in the courts.
Women will visit one corral for the alpha fucks breeding stock and remain there for a decade or however long a duration they can without being laughed at.
And they will visit the beta corral as briefly as needed, or for as long as needed, depending on what she can manage or tolerate.
The worst mistake in forecasting is to assume linear continuation of past trends. It creates fun predictions of Heaven or Hell, but is almost always wrong.
Countermovements are already in motion.
Girls , that are now young women , have been taught that they are superior to men , and men are sex crazed , inferior beasts of the field. Hence a large percentage of young women have fear , loathing and contempt for men , mainly due to this ” media ” propaganda and feminist pushed influence in education. Hence young women now are different creatures , and not in a good way. No wonder men are going their own way , they are treated as ” The Enemy ” by females now.
MGTOW is the only answer for men. Anything else and you simply become the plow horse. Live free gentlemen like a wild mustang should ! One stock tip…..invest in cat food futures !
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With so many very evil horrible women now that are real feminists these days, MGTOW is a real smart way to go today since many of these very dumb women will even Curse at us for no reason at all when we will try to start a conversation with them by just saying good morning or hello to them. Very difficult for many of us single men trying to talk too women nowadays, especially with the ones that we would really like too meet. Feminism is much worse that cancer now which is caused by these type of women in the first place, and that is why so many of us men are forced to go MGTOW now because of this.
I’m fine with women going their own way. They won’t be expecting me to try to date them, I won’t be looking to marry one of them, and I won’t economically support one. They don’t need men for any of this anymore – or so they claim. I am more than willing to allow them the complete freedom to prove to me that what they claim and be proven. After all, the more preoccupied they are with displaying this ability, the less they are going to attempt to ruin my ability to be doing the very same things they claim to desire.
Good luck, ladies! Welcome to reality!
I’ve read many of these blogs on this subject over course of 2 years since this came out. This one is really good. I think this article has had less exposure than it deserves as I didn’t find it through google, but duckduck go search engine. So the google ads or paid advertising hid this gem of a writing.
I feel this article should be read by more people.
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